Help Me Talk This Out/ Finishing 5 Lug

billison · Dec 9, 2016

Ok, buttoned up the 5 lug last night.

Pulled it out this morning and have a few issues that I need to resolve.

1. Passenger side wheel is toe in. I believe the tie rod end up a turn or 2 out.

2. Something is getting hung up. Possibly e brake lines hitting the tires: zip ties? Don't wanna drop $40 at lmr for the brackets.

Only test I did was raise the rear end put it in gear. Everything sounded fine, everything spun without issue. Only saw the wear on the new e brake cables.

Would the toe being off make it feel like the car is catching on something?

3. While in the air, in first gear, I could not stop the rear tires with the brakes, and the pedal was a little spungy, more bleeding needed?

Pics of how off the toe is coming soon

billison · Dec 9, 2016

Guess I should add detailes.

88-gt

Sn95 swap- spindles and brakes. Ranger axles with sn95 rear discs.

Sn95 master cylinder with stock booster.

275/40R17 in the back
225/4517 in the front

billison · Dec 9, 2016

Ok, I know pics won't help much, but it looks like drivers side is slightly toe in and passenger is really toe in.

Drivers side ( ignore the mess)

billison · Dec 9, 2016

Passenger

billison · Dec 9, 2016

And cuz it's purdy

billison · Dec 9, 2016

Ok, 2 more test before I left.

Pulled the rear tires and ran it in first. Nothing is catching at all, so my catching issue is either the e brake cable or from the toe being off.

With it in first, the ebrake will not lock up the rears but it will slowly kill the car--- I'm guessing I got a lot more bleeding to do.

Mustang5L5 · Dec 9, 2016

The toe is common. Just has to do with the location of the tie rod arms on the SN95 spindles. You just need to adjust the tie rods out far enough to get the wheels straight enough to drive to get an alignment. Mine were both toe in when I did the swap.

#2 is the rear cable guide that bolts to the control arm is necessary. I also feel $40 is a waste, and got lucky to find a v6 at a boltyard to steal them off. Should be pretty easy to see if the tires are rubbing the cables though.

E-brake is mechanical rachet. Once the brakes are fully bled and the pistons are fully extended, they will push out a tad bit more. If the cable is too loose, it doesn't hold enough. With the rear on jackstands, tighten the e-brake up to the point the rears are slightly dragging, then loose the bolt slightly until they are free. You may need to do this a couple times as the cable does stretch during the initial setup. PITA, but once you get it locked in, it holds for years. Mine hasn't needed adjustment in about 10 years, and I use it frequently and it still holds well

billison · Dec 9, 2016

Will the tow been on make it feel like it's catching? Or just destroy the tires and make the car steer like crap?

Mustang5L5 · Dec 9, 2016

Hard to really understand what you mean by catching. Do you mean like a grabbing feeling that slows the car down? Or just a noise of something hitting? If it's slowing the car down, I'd investigate a sticking caliper

But yea, toe will cause the car to handle like crap. Just push that tie rod out some to try and straighten it out a bit. Just make sure you have plenty of thread engaged into the tie rod at it's final position.

billison · Dec 9, 2016

Sorry, didn't fully explain what I was hearing.

The sound seems to come from the rear. It's was only there when the car was on the ground and moving. It's not constant but maybe every quarter turn of the tire it sounds like something is getting hung up. But I believe it's from the cables. I'll zip tie them for now. Once it rolls freely I'll address the rest. Gonna do a full bleed again.

Any clue if those vacuum bleeders will deal with any air in the mc?

Mustang5L5 · Dec 9, 2016

Never used them. I usually never have issues bleeding.

If you have air in the MC though, you really need to bench bleed it or pressure bleed it. I've also jacked the rear of the car up so high the MC was level, and that may have helped

billison · Dec 9, 2016

I bled the mc but I think I did it wrong.

I used spare lines and bent them back into the mc but they did not go into the fluid. I'm I'm thinking I'll get some tubing and start there, then bleed them again.

I kinda rushed the bleeding cuz I was excited about the new wheels.

stpete · Dec 9, 2016

I very well might be misunderstanding what you're asking about bleeding, but ... If the MC is hooked up and pushing the brakes, you bleed the whole system. Bench bleeding is to get fluid flowing on a new MC. If that's happening at every wheel, there's no sense bench bleeding the MC again. Is the MC bubbling or something? If so, make sure connections are tight. Vac bleed the whole system if you have one, but I find it best to do at least some manual pumping of the system if it's new. Sometimes the vac bleeders don't get some parts of the system cleared. I like a pressure bleeder, but haven't tried that on the fox yet.

It's pretty easy to get very close on toe. Take something straight (2x4 or similar) and push it up against the outside of each front wheel. Use a tape measure to measure in front of the wheel and behind it. Adjust until it's where you want it to be (a little toe in, around 1/16" closer in the front). Eyeballing one of them and calling that one the straight one is fine. It gets you very close so you can drive until you get an alignment. Significant toe out will suck to drive, it'll feel like something is loose in your suspension. Car will drive along, then suddenly lurch. My race car was making a popping noise when that happened also, might have been pulling hard on the sway bar or something.

billison · Dec 9, 2016

I've never bled a mc before this, so maybe I'm putting too much thought into it.

I bled it on the car and got fluid to flow, but was under the impression that I had to get all the air out. But I guess it would come out while bleeding the system right?

I'm gonna check for leaks.

General karthief · Dec 9, 2016

If you have air in the mc it will have to travel the system to get out, it may have trapped some in the distribution block, if your peddle is soft you should bleed it. It may take a while but you can do it. Just don't let the mc go dry or your starting over.
In the future when bench bleeding and you don't want to make a mess make sure the line are submerged at all times, should only take a three or four slow pumps.
I would try bleeding mc again,
The wheels do look good

Mustang5L5 · Dec 9, 2016

If there is a bubble in the MC, it's hard to get out duebto the angle. Tends to stay trapped at the front.

Why I said I would jack the car yo by the rear to try and get it short of another bench bleed.

I'm sure your method worked fine. I wouldn't judge the quality of the braking by e brake performance

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billison · Dec 9, 2016

I wish I would have grabbed a pic while it was out, but it was below freezing and I was frustrated with the rubbing.

Now had b springs and it looked great.

I can feel that it has air in the system just from the pedal. I was more concerned with putting it in gear with my foot on the pedal and it didn't slow it down.

I'll be starting my work on it in a bit.

90sickfox · Dec 9, 2016

If you have someone to push the brake pedal its not hard to bleed on the car.

Crack the furthest line from the booster first. Don't take it off just loosen it a 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Have the person push the pedal to the floor kinda slow. Have them hold it on the floor while you tighten the line- then have them kinda slowly let up. Repeat a few times per line.

You want to get to the point where fluid runs out when pressing the pedal without spitting and sputtering.

Once you do that then bleed the brakes in the same manner.

At the shop we call it out as we do it. I yell " loose" they yell " going down" then they yell " holding " I yell " tight ", " they yell " going up "

Do that three times per wheel. The rear won't flow as much as the front but watch for bubbles or sputtering.

The next round is the pump up and bleed. Have them pump the pedal a few times and hold it as firm as they can- loosen the bleeder then tighten it back up. They release the pedal and you move to the next wheel. Once you do that on all 4 wheels start the car and see how the pedal feels. Should feel pretty good.

If it doesn't feel good after that then there's something else wrong. Check all the brake line fittings....a very small leak can drop the pedal.

Mustang5L5 · Dec 9, 2016

One more thing to add. If you installed an adjustable prop valve. Make sure it's full open

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billison · Dec 9, 2016

It'll be a bit before I can deal with the brakes.

The toe makes it so I can't even pretend to get a test drive in, so that will be my focus for tonight.

I believe most of the rear end noise is fitment issues from the bigger tire. The zip ties helped a Ton , and the wheel weight was hitting the tail pipe, so a few pops with a bfh and that was fine. But there too much clatter from the front to tell any more.

I'm honestly wondering if I'm gonna end up selling these wheels and getting 9" rears

Help Me Talk This Out/ Finishing 5 Lug

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