HELP!! no spark with spout in!!!

[nickmav70]

driving my car yesterday it just died on me at a light... i pushed it into the parking lot nearby and it cranked and and cranked no start... randomly 5 mins later i turned it over and it started right up... got about 2 blocks away and it died again sitting at another light... no luck this time with it starting later.... got it towed home and went to bed...

got up this morning and started my diagnostics...

fuel pressure 40 psi even while cranking
no spark or injector pulse with spout in
spark and injector pulse with spout out
timing at 12*
tested the tfi module at parts store and it tested good

next thing im thinking is PIP or EEC

would fuel injectors still get signal to fire with a bad PIP?

 

[574stang]

I had a similar problem in the summer with my 93. almost exact situatuion actually and after troubleshooting for about 6 hours i managed to get ahold of a different EEC and the problem went away. hope this helps

 

[jrichker]

The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. A failing PIP sensor will often set code 14 in the computer. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

The PIP sensor is mounted in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. In stock Ford distributors, you have to press the gear off the distributor shaft to get access to it to replace it.

To remove the gear, first you drive out the roll pin that secures the gear to the shaft. Then you get to press the gear off with a hydraulic press or puller. When you go to press the gear back on, it has to be perfectly lined up with the hole in the gear and shaft. I have been told that the hole for the pin is offset slightly from center and may require some extra examination to get it lined up correctly.

Most guys just end up replacing the distributor with a remanufactured unit for about $75 exchange


PIP problems & diagnostic info
Spark with the SPOUT out, but not with the SPOUT in suggests a PIP problem. The PIP signal level needs to be above 6.5 volts to trigger the computer, but only needs to be 5.75 volts to trigger the TFI module. Hence with a weak PIP signal, you could get spark but no injector pulse. You will need an oscilloscope or graphing DVM to measure the output voltage since it is not a straight DC voltage.

See http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i2_2004.pdf and http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i3_2004.pdf for verification of this little detail from Wells, a manufacturer of TFI modules and ignition system products.

 

[nickmav70]

riddle me this....


i ended up taking the battery too low to test anymore on the car so i took it to get it charged (dont have a charger at the house) and it tested bad... got home put another battery in the car without making any changes to the car... all the symptoms went away and the car runs like a champ...

why? im really confused on this one!!!!

 

[jrichker]

The computer probably wasn't getting enough voltage to run properly, or you have some high resistance connections somewhere in the TFI/Computer circuit.

 

[574stang]

awesome glad to hear man!!