Help With Tfs Heads On Stock 302

fiveohlover · May 23, 2012

I finaly got the money to buy some tfs heads. I want to make a bout 330-350 rwhp. Will these track heat heads with 2.02/1.6 valves do the trick http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51405810-C01/ or are they too big for a stock bottom end. I also wanted a 10 to 1 compression ratio.
I am thinking about either getting custom cam or a anderson ford n41 or n412 cam. The car will be weekend street car that has 4.10 gears.

RangerJoe · May 23, 2012

Those heads, out of the box, will get you somewhere around 9.5:1 compression. You can mill them a bit to find your 10:1, but that may affect the flow numbers of that head. TFS advertises their top end kit, which consist of those heads and TFS stage 1 cam (milder than the Anderson Cams) and one of their intakes, at about 340 flywheel horsepower. Based on that, I would not expect you to make 330-350 rear wheel horsepower on a 302, with those heads out of the box, even with the more aggresive cam. On a 347....then probably so.

I'm sure someone else will have a different opinion on it. Either way, those heads will make for a very nice motor and plenty of extra power versus stock.

Joe

fiveohlover · May 23, 2012

well i did a compression calculator and i put in the calculator 0 dome and a 0.037 head gasket and got 10.3 to 1 would that be the exact compression of the engine or is it off some

fiveohlover · May 23, 2012

arent the heads in the tfs top end kit 170?

RangerJoe · May 24, 2012

fiveohlover said:
arent the heads in the tfs top end kit 170?

You may be right about this. However, your still talking about a difference of about 30-40 rwhp over the top end kit.

Joe

RangerJoe · May 24, 2012

RangerJoe said:
You may be right about this. However, your still talking about a difference of about 30-40 rwhp over the top end kit.

Joe

Ok, well, I'll correct myself a little here, a good thing for you I plugged the 185 heads and the N41 camshaft into my Desktop Dyno, which has proven to be fairly accurate for me in the past, and I got 391HP. With a 0" deck, .037 gasket, and 6cc of valve relief (stock piston), it came out just under 9.6:1. This was also with longtube headers. So, with 15% drivetrain loss, it comes out to 332rwhp. So thats a ballpark estimate, but close to what you were hoping for.

Joe

fiveohlover · May 24, 2012

with the track heat heads will i need to upgrade my valve springs with one of those anderson cams or will it be fine.

NIKwoaC · May 24, 2012

I've got the 205s on my stock short block, you'll be fine with the 185s. If you're serious about getting a matching combo, look into having the heads/cam/intake supplied to you by Total Engine Airflow. They will port match the intake to the heads for you and supply you with everything you need to put it together, and can even help you with a custom cam (or you can go elsewhere for that and just get the heads/cam from TEA). They will also hook you up with a nice valvetrain to go along with a serious cam.

fiveohlover · May 24, 2012

should i get the 205 like you have or is that to much for a street car

stykthyn · May 24, 2012

There's more to the picture than just heads. You can can get nice sreetability out of the 205s if you plan out the rest of the build accordingly.

fiveohlover · May 24, 2012

what would be a good intake manifold to go with the 205, and how about injectors, maf, and tb

stykthyn · May 24, 2012

Look at nikwoac's build thread. He goes over his entire build from start to finish.

fiveohlover · May 25, 2012

whats the difference between the fast as cast 190 and the cnc 185?

NIKwoaC · May 25, 2012

fiveohlover said:
should i get the 205 like you have or is that to much for a street car

When done right, they are not too much for a street car. I drive my car every single day that the weather is nice. Let me give you two disclaimers, though:

1. There are much more cost effective ways to make power. I have over $2k in my heads alone. I could have thrown a pair of TW 170s on my car, reused the Explorer intake I had, kept the stock cam and thrown a Vortech on it and probably made 100 more horsepower than I am making now. Granted, not everybody has a 302 with 205s on it, and it gives me a LOT of room to grow, but you see that I could have went faster up front for the money I spent.

2. I mean no offense by this, but it sounds like you may want to do some more homework. The big-head small engine thing is something you want to be pretty educated on before you start buying parts. If you dump a bunch of money into it and then it doesn't perform the way you expected, you will only be disappointed. To that extent, I recommend you find a good cam guy, haha.

2000xp8 · May 25, 2012

Your first post says you have a stock bottom end, if that is true most of the heads you speak of here, won't work without notching pistons, having done so on my own engine years back, honestly i wouldn't suggest it, you can make the same power, without the headache other ways.
Milling TW's is going to make clearances worse with them too.

On a stock 302 bottom end it is possible to get near 350rwhp, although it requires premium parts.
I've seen a few in the 340's for street cars, but they are all afr 165 cars.
Custom cam, rpmII intake, 30's, and afr 165's is probably the best you are going to do for a street car, i've seen it tested (first hand) many different ways, and that setup seems to have the best reoccurring results.

fiveohlover · May 25, 2012

i have done some research and found that you dont have to notch the pistons for most tfs heads as long as your cam is not too big. Is this correct?

NIKwoaC · May 25, 2012

2000xp8 said:
Your first post says you have a stock bottom end, if that is true most of the heads you speak of here, won't work without notching pistons, having done so on my own engine years back, honestly i wouldn't suggest it, you can make the same power, without the headache other ways.
Milling TW's is going to make clearances worse with them too.

On a stock 302 bottom end it is possible to get near 350rwhp, although it requires premium parts.
I've seen a few in the 340's for street cars, but they are all afr 165 cars.
Custom cam, rpmII intake, 30's, and afr 165's is probably the best you are going to do for a street car, i've seen it tested (first hand) many different ways, and that setup seems to have the best reoccurring results.

Disagree. Not only are my 205s milled, but my bottom end has the original 86 pistons, which have no notches whatsoever, AND my pistons were .005-.010 above deck. TWs are your best choice for valve clearance if you actually want a head that moves some air. Like anything else though, cam selection plays a big role. My cam has roughly the same valve events @ .050" as an XE 266, and judging by how much clearance I had, I probably could have went even bigger (though a cam with more duration/overlap wouldn't have made sense in my application).

Honestly, I would never spend money on a 165. It is just to small for anything but a 302, your options for growth are seriously limited.

NIKwoaC · May 25, 2012

By the way, I've seen 165 headed 302s fall short of even 300 to the tire, and even a 331 barely make 330. It's all about the combo.

stykthyn · May 25, 2012

The cam is undoubtedly one of the most crucial parts of any build. Don't skimp on this. It will bring out the most potential your combs has to offecr.

fiveohlover · May 25, 2012

how will a tfs fast as cast 190 with anderson n-41 and a tfs track heat intake perform together?

Help With Tfs Heads On Stock 302

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I want to measure mine. It doesn't look that tall.

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