Help With Tfs Heads On Stock 302

2000xp8 · May 25, 2012

NIKwoaC said:
Disagree. Not only are my 205s milled, but my bottom end has the original 86 pistons, which have no notches whatsoever, AND my pistons were .005-.010 above deck. TWs are your best choice for valve clearance if you actually want a head that moves some air. Like anything else though, cam selection plays a big role. My cam has roughly the same valve events @ .050" as an XE 266, and judging by how much clearance I had, I probably could have went even bigger (though a cam with more duration/overlap wouldn't have made sense in my application).

Honestly, I would never spend money on a 165. It is just to small for anything but a 302, your options for growth are seriously limited.

You can have afr 165's cnc'ed, or sell them for good money and trade up, so i see growth is a non issue since they hold their value pretty well (probably better than used heads should).

Do you have any dyno numbers or quarter times with from your setup?

Over the years i have typically been a twisted wedge guy, but as of late it just seems that stock wedges vs stock 165's, the 165's yield better power.

With that said, still one of the best setups i've ever seen was gt40x's with an e cam which ran 116mph at full weight, so....

NIKwoaC · May 26, 2012

2000xp8 you can have any head ported, but the 165 would require a valve change. The TW uses the same size valves all across the board, you can basically take a 170 out to the 205 without a valve change. Also, I don't count the fact that you can sell off the 165s and buy a better head as "room for growth" haha.

I don't have dyno numbers for my car, but my track results are in my sig. It went 13.1 at 109 and some change on street tires with my ty driving, granny shifting. 3300+ race weight with 2.2ish 60 ft. I was having some clutch issues and this year I'm hoping for solid 12s at 110+. See my build thread for info.

Again, I've also seen 40X heads fall short of 300 to the tire and run high 13s. It's all about the combo, so for me I'm going to start out with the best parts that offer the most potential for growth. With my 205s, I will probably never buy another SBF head, because there is 600+ horsepower naturally aspirated potential in those heads alone.

fiveohlover · May 26, 2012

i am not using any gt 40 ford racing parts on my combo

NIKwoaC · Jun 2, 2012

2000xp8 said:
You can have afr 165's cnc'ed, or sell them for good money and trade up, so i see growth is a non issue since they hold their value pretty well (probably better than used heads should).

Do you have any dyno numbers or quarter times with from your setup?

Over the years i have typically been a twisted wedge guy, but as of late it just seems that stock wedges vs stock 165's, the 165's yield better power.

With that said, still one of the best setups i've ever seen was gt40x's with an e cam which ran 116mph at full weight, so....

I was browsing the corral and stumbled into a couple threads I found interesting and relevant to this.

This guy made 335 to the tire with TW 170s, the SM2, and an FTI custom cam (and then went 119 at the track):

http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0...1-dyno-results-tfs170-holley-sm2-fti-cam.html

This guy made 280 to the tire with AFR 165s, a tubular GT40 and an FTI custom cam:

http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1366723-dyno-results-afr-165s-gt-40-fti-cam.html

Not exactly apples to apples comparison, but just food for thought. It's all about the combo.

fiveohlover · Jun 2, 2012

wow that guy in the first thread made some impressive power numbers and track times. Do you guys think the holley sm2 is better than the track heat manifold?

NIKwoaC · Jun 3, 2012

The SM2 has a long standing reputation for making power. I wouldn't hesitate to run it. Whether it is better or not than the Track Heat, I really can't say.

fiveohlover · Jun 3, 2012

how about the 80 mm maf isnt that kind of big for the set up that guy had in the first link

NIKwoaC · Jun 4, 2012

As long as the MAF does a good job of metering the air, in theory you really want it as big as possible. You don't want it to ever become a restriction to airflow.

fiveohlover · Jun 4, 2012

same with the Throttle body?

2000xp8 · Jun 4, 2012

NIKwoaC said:
I was browsing the corral and stumbled into a couple threads I found interesting and relevant to this.

This guy made 335 to the tire with TW 170s, the SM2, and an FTI custom cam (and then went 119 at the track):

http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0...1-dyno-results-tfs170-holley-sm2-fti-cam.html

This guy made 280 to the tire with AFR 165s, a tubular GT40 and an FTI custom cam:

http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1366723-dyno-results-afr-165s-gt-40-fti-cam.html

Not exactly apples to apples comparison, but just food for thought. It's all about the combo.

I'm well aware it's about the combo and probably most important when you really start getting up there in power is the cam.

119mph is pretty damn fast on a NA 302.

Couple weeks back at my buddies shop they did a NA stock shortblock 302, 165's, custom cam, rpmII setup (by far my preference for an intake), made 363rwhp.
Difference between this setup and a previous similar was that it used long tubes and the last one that dyno'ed in the 340's had shorty equals.

Rick 91GT · Jun 4, 2012

All on 9.31 compression, impressive....

The best I was able to get out of my old 302 at 8.8:1 was 342rwhp, Holley heads, Holley intake, N61 cam, long tubes, etc....lots of tuning to get there. (117mph)

It looks like you already made a decison on the heads based on the other thread, the 58cc will limit you cam profile wise duration will have to be small, but Ed can work around that. I like the RPM2 or Holley intake with that combo personally, 75mm TB and 80-92mm MAF.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO WITH THE CAR IN THE FUTURE....plan now so you are not buying parts 6 months from now.

NIKwoaC · Jun 4, 2012

2000xp8 said:
I'm well aware it's about the combo and probably most important when you really start getting up there in power is the cam.

119mph is pretty damn fast on a NA 302.

Couple weeks back at my buddies shop they did a NA stock shortblock 302, 165's, custom cam, rpmII setup (by far my preference for an intake), made 363rwhp.
Difference between this setup and a previous similar was that it used long tubes and the last one that dyno'ed in the 340's had shorty equals.

Specs on the cam that made 363? TB/MAF? Header primary size? What were they spinning it to?

2000xp8 · Jun 4, 2012

NIKwoaC said:
Specs on the cam that made 363? TB/MAF? Header primary size? What were they spinning it to?

Well, the specs on any of his custom cams are never given out.

When i goto the shop later this week i'll make a printout of the dyno sheet.
I didn't ask all the details, the h/c/i is all the know for sure. I'll get the rest other than the cam.

fiveohlover · Jun 4, 2012

i dont want to have to be limited on my camshaft. If the car that had the long tube headers that 2000xp8 was talking about had 363 rwhp that plenty and a impressive number. And in the future i might make it a 306 if i ever need a new pistons and i plan to add a small shot of nitrous or boost in the future.

2000xp8 · Jun 5, 2012

fiveohlover said:
i dont want to have to be limited on my camshaft. If the car that had the long tube headers that 2000xp8 was talking about had 363 rwhp that plenty and a impressive number. And in the future i might make it a 306 if i ever need a new pistons and i plan to add a small shot of nitrous or boost in the future.

The one thing i would like to say is that while the numbers they get are great, they probably aren't something the average guy should expect. They get things like pushrod length, rocker adjustment and the installation of all parts perfect, which they should, he's had a 5.0 mustang shop since the late 80's. When going for top numbers, every detail matters.

fiveohlover · Jun 5, 2012

even 340 to the tire is impressive. So do you guys think i should get bigger combustion chambers for future pistons and better airflow + get a higher lift cam, or get the 58cc so that i can have higher compression?

NIKwoaC · Jun 7, 2012

2000xp8 said:
Well, the specs on any of his custom cams are never given out.

When i goto the shop later this week i'll make a printout of the dyno sheet.
I didn't ask all the details, the h/c/i is all the know for sure. I'll get the rest other than the cam.

Bump.

2000xp8 · Jun 9, 2012

NIKwoaC said:
Bump.

Didn't have time to stop by this week, i'm self employed and usually stop by when i'm close or have extra time with nothing to do, maybe late this coming week, but at this point not until at least thursday.

NIKwoaC · Jun 15, 2012

2000xp8 said:
Didn't have time to stop by this week, i'm self employed and usually stop by when i'm close or have extra time with nothing to do, maybe late this coming week, but at this point not until at least thursday.

Sha-bumpitty.

2000xp8 · Jun 18, 2012

NIKwoaC said:
Sha-bumpitty.

Got some more details today.
The headers were not long tubes, he doesn't remember but thinks bassani equals.
TB was a 70, probably accufab because that's what he prefers.
Meter was a DBX (which he seems to have grown very fond of).

I was off on the hp numbers it was 356hp and 352tq.
Peaked at around 6000rpm (hard to tell in the video)

I didn't take the dyno sheet because he's got a whole video diary of the build he's doing from start to finish.
Car made 226rwhp with all the normal bolt on's , like exhaust, cai intake (appeared to be a C&L setup in video of stock run), pulleys, etc..

When he's done with the video catalog of it i'll let you know, he's doing it for his youtube channel.

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