My dad and I are restoring a 66 coupe with a 289 c code. Heres the problem right now everythink on the car is original basically he wants keep it all original whereas i would like to get a little more power outta the thing. We are in the middle of rebuilding the engine right now and i was wondering if you guys had any suggestions on some things i could do to give the old 289 some power but that you couldnt see when you open the hood (aka no new carb, intake, heads, headers, exaust system, etc) Is there anything else thats worth doing? Thanks.
Hidden Power?
- Thread starter Burgundystang
- Start date
golf4283
Active Member
Stroke it out to a 331 or more. You can oprt the heads, new rockers. New valves. You can get HIPO exhaust manifolds also for better performance. Thats about all I can think of.
brianj5600
Active Member
Maybe a cam with similar power range, but a little more lift and duration. Make sure it is fresh and maybe mill the heads. Oh, and what he said.
oboebrian
Founding Member
My vote is for a stroker kit also, but I would highly recommend a qualified machine and engine shop (that is familiar with strokers) build the enigne for you. It's well worth the lil extra money (just ask dodgestang). But do a google search for Coast High Performance.
golf4283
Active Member
Bingo!! CHP is my shoe in for strokers. I say that becuase in a few months I will be relying on their parts in my 347.
DarkBuddha
Founding Member
IMHO, don't spend a bunch of money on stroker kit if you're not gonna open up the breathing of the engine to take advantage. Big displacement requires lots of air (more so relative to smaller displacement)... Certainly you can do a moderate cam and some head work, both of which will make a good bit of difference in performance.
I know you said no new carb, intake, exhaust, etc... but if its strictly a matter of "looking" original versus actually being original, you've got options. For example, there were factory 4 barrel intake/carb setups. Also, K code exhaust manifolds still look like manifolds but flow better than the original log style manifolds. And if you want to be sneaky, consider getting a good aftermarket intake and milling any identifying marks off it, and paint it Ford Corporate blue. Add a nice Autolite 4100 from Pony Carbs and hide it under the original aircleaner... who'd know other than you??? Maybe one of those anal concours MCA types.
I know you said no new carb, intake, exhaust, etc... but if its strictly a matter of "looking" original versus actually being original, you've got options. For example, there were factory 4 barrel intake/carb setups. Also, K code exhaust manifolds still look like manifolds but flow better than the original log style manifolds. And if you want to be sneaky, consider getting a good aftermarket intake and milling any identifying marks off it, and paint it Ford Corporate blue. Add a nice Autolite 4100 from Pony Carbs and hide it under the original aircleaner... who'd know other than you??? Maybe one of those anal concours MCA types.
Awesome. THanks for the sugestions. Now comes the hard part.... talking my dad into some of the things yall suggested. And in order to do that effectively im going to need a little more info. So if you dont mind i have a few more questions...
1. If I were to go with a stroker and/or new cam does everyone agree that i would have to beef up my intake in some form?
2. If i do have to beef up my intake could i get by with putting a larger two barrell on? If so could I then leave my old intake man. on?
3. Any suggestions for a stroker kit? For a decent cam? (I would prefer to put a Lunati cam on there because the man who started Lunati is my best friends great uncle. Do they make one that would suit my purposes or do i need to go with another company?)
4. If i were to put on the HiPo exaust manifold that some one refered to... would it actually help me any if i did leave everything else (including the muffler) stock?
Well thats all for right now... more than likely ill think of something else during the day so until then thanks a lot!
1. If I were to go with a stroker and/or new cam does everyone agree that i would have to beef up my intake in some form?
2. If i do have to beef up my intake could i get by with putting a larger two barrell on? If so could I then leave my old intake man. on?
3. Any suggestions for a stroker kit? For a decent cam? (I would prefer to put a Lunati cam on there because the man who started Lunati is my best friends great uncle. Do they make one that would suit my purposes or do i need to go with another company?)
4. If i were to put on the HiPo exaust manifold that some one refered to... would it actually help me any if i did leave everything else (including the muffler) stock?
Well thats all for right now... more than likely ill think of something else during the day so until then thanks a lot!
BullittStangV8
Founding Member
by porting the heads and stroking out the engine, youre going to need to be able to flow more air into the enigine. This can only be done by opening up the intake and exaust. otherwise you will not get anypower gains from the stroking. i would suggest a 4 barrel carb, with an aftermarket intake. paint the intake blue like i did. and my holley street deamon isnt really all that noticable unless you take the air filter off. also, i would suggest some hipo headers as well, as you will need to get the exaust gas flowing better.
Mike
Mike
oboebrian
Founding Member
Burgundystang said:
You don't have to beef it up, just either do massive porting and polishing to the old intake to improve airflow. Or do what DB said about buying a new Edelbrock RPM 4V intake (not the air gap version) and carefully grining the edelbrock stampings off the intake and painting it the stock engine color. A lot of people who aren't 100% MCA gold class anal restorers do this trick and unless you look very closely (and know what your looking for) no one will notice that your intake is not stock (if you do a good job at milling the stampings off).
Again, go to http://ponycarburetors.com/main.asp and buy this Autolite 4100 3v carb (stock on 4v mustangs):
http://www.webcutter.com/newstore/d...ct.asp&productid=1132&catcode=71000001&show=3
Pony carbs is one of the premier carb refurbishers in the business right now (i haven't used them yet). The 2v ccarb will not flow/fuel air anywhere near the 4v carb that you would need for a stroker kit. Again, get a new intake and new carb to increase airflow and fuel to the eingine.
I'm sure Lunati could custom grind a cam for your setup once you decide on what you want. If you are putting the kit into your 289 I wouldn't go for anything over a 331 stroker kit put together buy a very competant engine assembler.
http://www.coasthigh.com/Assemblies/Ford/ford_331.htm
Probably for you, I would suggest buying the CHP crate engine. That would mean it would come assembled and engine dyno'd i believe. It would be ready to just paint to the factory style and drop in the car. No one would really tell a difference (unless your restoring to MCA Gold Class standards).
http://www.coasthigh.com/Assemblies/Ford/ford_347.htm
No you would have to upgrade your entire exhaust system otherwise you will not have the airflow needed to remove the exhuast gasses. If you don't upgrade the exhaust then the exhaust gasses will build up in frront of the muffler and won't be scavaged form teh combstion chamber, which leads to all kinds of major problems. Remember stock mustangs came with dual exhaust also. Just buy the dual exhaust rear valance, trim rings, and exhaust trumpets and take the car to a competant exhaust shop to fabricate the h (or x) pipe and exhaust system.
You could go the hipo exhaust manifolds if you can afford and find them. You also go the tri-y headder look that a lot of people installed back in the 60's. There is a new company out that is producing the tri-y's that flow a lot better than the original style tri-y's. I'll try to find the company name for ya when i get hoem tonight.
But proper airflow in and out of the engine along with timing and air/fuel mixture = big power even in a stock looking package. Then you have to up gradeeverythign else also such as a matching torque converter and shift kit for your trany, perhaps a rear end rebuild with shorrter (higher #) gears, and new better tires. But you can easily build a mustang that hauls major butt and also look very very close to stock. This is one of the two routes i'm going with my 65 (that or a stroked EFI 5.0). If you have any more q's dont' be afraid to ask.
oboebrian, you brought up a good point about the trany. What goes into changing gears etc. Is it something i could do myself or should i take it to a shop? Is it something that definately needs to be done if i do some of the above improvements or just another thing that would help out? And finally, if i am more interested in burning a new bmw or something at stop light than in goin way over 100 mph what gears should i get?
IMO You can't start thinking about building HP and leaving the base components (intake man., exhaust man., carb, heads) stock. These are the first building blocks for power. As stated before, doing anything internally to the motor will really be a waste without changing these.
You might also think about the other systems on the car. The power of a stroker should really be part of a system that can harness it (brakes, suspension, chassis, etc).
Again, Just my simple opinion
You might also think about the other systems on the car. The power of a stroker should really be part of a system that can harness it (brakes, suspension, chassis, etc).
Again, Just my simple opinion
gp001, I think that you are probably right. I was really just looking for little bit more hp, nothing major. It does sound so tempting to do all the things people on here suggested but im thinking that youre right in saying that they may be inpractical. Its really just going to come down to what my dad is willing to do. Ill find out soon. Thanks
Burgundystang said:
I had the same problem between my dad and I with my first 67 I restored in high school. Basically for more power I added a bigger 2 barrel and my mileage really sucked. Then I eventually sneaked on a nice intake and 4barrel a few years later and actually got better gas mileage.
That is great that you and your dad have this project together - Cherish it, and worry about more HP later.
dodgestang
Active Member
gp001 said:
you also shouldn't consider a HP build like a stroker motor unless you are willing to upgrade the braking and chassis in some manner.
Stroker motors generally have a VERY flat torque curve making them a lot of fun on the street and get up in speed very fast....if you don't have at the min a 2 chamber MC and even better front Disc brakes...things can get hairy very fast when you need to stop very fast. You will also be stressing the unibody alot...at the min I would recommend installing front torque boxes, beefy sway bar(s), export brace and monte carlo bar....all these things are mods from original but very nessecary for the car in my opinion.
Then you also find out you have a 40 yr old steering box, so you will want to update that with a rebuilt unit or a flaming river box (for orginallity) or better yet a rack setup....see how these things all add up....and off course you will need a posi rear and the old c4 prob won't take it so it will need to be rebuilt..but then wouldn't it be fun to have a low gear in the back
so maybe we should put in an OD tranny.Once you start......you just can't stop
at least I can't
Hello, my name is Nick, and I have a musting addiction.
I hear ya about not being able to stop adding things once you start. You are right though especially about the brakes and the like. My dad is outta town this weekend so i guess ill talk to him when he gets back on monday. Thanks for all the comments and i guess ill just have to see how it goes with him. Thanks again.
There is a lot to be said for a stock build and the power of a 289 C is adequate for daily driving. I can appreciate your dad's concept. Being one myself, I'm not too crazy about my 17 y.o. taking my modified mustang out for a night on the town. (The insurance company isn't too happy about it either.)
Unless you are willing to improve the flow from the carb to the exhaust, there is little that can be done internally to improve preformance other than stroking. However, this is expensive and you will not capture the potential performance without carb, manifold, head, cam, headers and dual exhaust.
Now if your dad would allow you to go "period" correct then you can step up to a four barrel, port-polish-over size valves, a good cam, and tri-y headers with dual exhaust and get a really good performance boost.
You should also consider a Pertronix unit to replace the points. You may not get much of a performance boost but the car will start easier and run smoother. There will be one extra wire comming out of the distributor, but how hard is that to hide?
One of the best performance (interms of acceleration) gains you can get is to go to a taller gear in the rear. Stock gears are ok for the highway but don't provide the grunt around town.
Unless you are willing to improve the flow from the carb to the exhaust, there is little that can be done internally to improve preformance other than stroking. However, this is expensive and you will not capture the potential performance without carb, manifold, head, cam, headers and dual exhaust.
Now if your dad would allow you to go "period" correct then you can step up to a four barrel, port-polish-over size valves, a good cam, and tri-y headers with dual exhaust and get a really good performance boost.
You should also consider a Pertronix unit to replace the points. You may not get much of a performance boost but the car will start easier and run smoother. There will be one extra wire comming out of the distributor, but how hard is that to hide?
One of the best performance (interms of acceleration) gains you can get is to go to a taller gear in the rear. Stock gears are ok for the highway but don't provide the grunt around town.
I have owned, restored, and worked on many classic Mustangs. Please allow me to offer the following:
Unless you're going to be restoring the car to concourse condition, I wouldn't worry too much about looking original. It won't help you any at cars shows or resale... There are tons of things that you can do to breathe new life into that 289, that won't look "gaudy". Most have already been discussed here.
You and your dad should talk about your future plans for the car. If you're going to use it as a daily driver, do things that make sense, like electronic ignition, modern induction, machine work, peppier cam, etc. Don't forget important safety items like front disc brake conversion, 3-point seat belts, etc. Let your checkbook dictate...
Keeping it original has its merits, but only if there's a well thought out reason for it. The first concern for a daily driver should be safety and reliability. The first concern of concourse class is authenticity. Most of us fall in the middle someplace.
Unless you're going to be restoring the car to concourse condition, I wouldn't worry too much about looking original. It won't help you any at cars shows or resale... There are tons of things that you can do to breathe new life into that 289, that won't look "gaudy". Most have already been discussed here.
You and your dad should talk about your future plans for the car. If you're going to use it as a daily driver, do things that make sense, like electronic ignition, modern induction, machine work, peppier cam, etc. Don't forget important safety items like front disc brake conversion, 3-point seat belts, etc. Let your checkbook dictate...
Keeping it original has its merits, but only if there's a well thought out reason for it. The first concern for a daily driver should be safety and reliability. The first concern of concourse class is authenticity. Most of us fall in the middle someplace.
Being 45 years old and having a kid that's 18 , I can truthfully say this: Most of you are going WAY overboard in giving advice on what he NEEDS to do, to talk his dad into a few mods. He needs to stay away from strokers, aluminum heads and all the other ultra hi-po stuff. There are other options as has been posted, like Tri-Y headers, Factory high rise aluminum intakes ( Ford's own A321, the older C9OX, and Shelby's "Cobra" high rise) and the 289 Hi-po exhaust manifolds to help boost the performance to respectable levels ( it just ain't gonna run sub 13 second quarters) His approach needs to be incremental, not pushing for a "full-house race motor" for a first step. A mild cam such as a Crane Energizer or a Comp Cams High Energy series would also be a good first step, and would work with the stock intake,heads, valves and exhaust. Think about what his dad ( who's likely never gotten into high performance stuff) would likely respond to a request to finance a $4-5000 stroker motor to "improve" the performance a little?
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