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  • 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk-
  • SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech

How do I make 360 Rwhp

  • Thread starter Thread starter bigbird04
  • Start date Start date Sep 1, 2010
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trinity_gt

10 Year Member
Jan 31, 2003
3,125
81
99
Canada
Sep 5, 2010
#21
  • Sep 5, 2010
  • #21
fast97gt said:
im gonna disagree there, the internals come apart at 400+hp on F/I engines because of added pressure from the added air/fuel.
Click to expand...

This is not true.

You should read Corky Bell's book "Maximum Boost." He goes into a good amount of detail about the differences between inertial and power loads, how they interact and about why the former is actually tougher on engines than the latter.

Some salient points from his book:

  • inertial loads come about from RPM and the loads increase as the square of the RPM increase
  • inertial loads are the worst of the two loads because they induce fatigue failure of components
  • the tensile forces on the connecting rod at TDC are maximum on the exhaust stroke and load here increases as the square of RPM
  • power loads are not "instantaneous" like inertial loads; power is a function of average pressure during the power stroke, not instant
  • pressure under boost at 90o crank angle are 3-4 times that of a N/A engine but are still less than peak pressure and are thus not damaging

Get the book.

but a n/a engine with that same hp is because of the engines efficiancy to utilize the same fuel pressure as stock and un restricted air flow now,...
Click to expand...

Small normally aspirated engines (if one can call the 4.6 "small") need to rev to move the air required to combust enough fuel to make power. It's why most small performance import engines need to turn 7000 or more RPM before they reach peak power. It's why F1 engines need to turn 19,000RPM to make their power.

RPM is more damaging to the engine than cylinder pressure resulting from forced induction. As an added feature, high RPM operation with mods (at least 2Vs) tends to fill the cylinder heads with oil unless drainback as been enhanced. This can lead to oil starvation if the pickup is exposed to air and a spun bearing.

As well, lets not forget having to control those valves at high RPM. Ever see Spintron footage of a valve operating at high RPM? Like:

YouTube - Valve Float

If seeing that doesn't make you nervous you're not human


I think the main reasons F/I engines come apart is thermal management and/or detonation from a bad tune resulting in the piston structural integrity failing. When that happens, the top of the rod come loose and becomes a battering ram. But it's not the outright power or cylinder pressure that's killing the engine, it's poor combustion and/or poor heat removal.

FRPP just introduced a 2.3L Whipple twin-screw blower for the 5.0L engine in the '11 GT (the "Coyote"). At just 7psi that combo produces 525HP and 470 ft-lbs of torque. And, if you can believe it, if the kit is installed by the Ford dealer, you get a 12-month/12,000 mile warranty.

And if you can live without the warranty you can get 624HP and 536 ft-lbs from just 9-psi.

Keep in mind that the Coyote uses powdered metal rods not so dissimilar from what's in our lowly 2V and it also uses similar brittle hypereutectic pistons. No forged goodness here and still the thing is capable of 525HP with a warranty.

There's no question that forged parts add a safety margin and strength and tolerance for less than ideal conditions.
 

fast97gt

Active Member
Jan 2, 2007
1,082
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49
north carolina
Sep 5, 2010
#22
  • Sep 5, 2010
  • #22
ChillPhatCat said:
And 400+ Hp N/A engines come apart because of high RPM's. In the end it's generally a wash, and without significant data on the weaknesses of a specific engine, you can't make a call on what is safe"er" with reasonable certainty. If you stay a good safety of margin under the maximum hp rating on the internals, it shouldn't matter whether you use forced or natural aspiration.
Click to expand...

if the engine makes its peak hp at 5500rpm and redline is @6400-6600rpms then the there is no bottom end failure, and to trinity i have seen that valve float video, but with good springs and a cam capible of spinning past a stock redline set by the computer then valve float is not relavent to this matter. we/I havent seen a stock bottom end on these mod motors make more then 350hp n/a. we can only take what we know that these mod bottom ends are weak under boost and at over 400hp. thats why you have to go forged. ive heard people spining a stock bottom by accident at over 7200rpms, i know bearings will spin at those speeds but theres reason that that happens also, when the engine bounces off the rev limiter theres a sudden and dramatic change in the rpms in a split second and thats more stress then the bearings can handle. if you revved an engine "thats capable meaning a good cam and even stock bottom you wouldnt hurt it until it bounced off the limiter.
 

fast97gt

Active Member
Jan 2, 2007
1,082
2
49
north carolina
Sep 5, 2010
#23
  • Sep 5, 2010
  • #23
also the topic is 360hp not 500. no doubt that if he attempted 450+hp it blow the h up. but at 360hp n/a, that thing aint going no where (meaning it will hold together)
 

bigbird04

Active Member
Jul 15, 2010
106
7
38
Decatur Al.
Sep 8, 2010
#24
  • Sep 8, 2010
  • #24
Sorry for being a few days late guys. Thanks for all the sugestions! Sounds like my goals are within reach either way I go, so long story short 350 is not only safe but easily attainable F/I or N/A!!!
 

fast97gt

Active Member
Jan 2, 2007
1,082
2
49
north carolina
Sep 8, 2010
#25
  • Sep 8, 2010
  • #25
bigbird04 said:
Sorry for being a few days late guys. Thanks for all the sugestions! Sounds like my goals are within reach either way I go, so long story short 350 is not only safe but easily attainable F/I or N/A!!!
Click to expand...

yup
 
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