How hard will this engine swap be?

68conv5sp · Feb 12, 2013

My 68 vert has an old 302 hat still runs cool/fine with ceramic tri-y's, some 1/2" drop engine mounts (expensive at the time) and a TKO 500. I may have a good deal on this 351. What will I need to do to swap this in:
5.8L/351W - 360-HP GT-40 Aluminum Head Ford Racing Performance Crate Engine Assembly
Part Number: M-6007-C351R

It has "reverse rotation" whats that?(can I use the stock style water pump?),
a dual sump oil pan, a side oil stick hole, and a different timing cover.
So those things need to be changed, but what about the TKO 500? Will it bolt up to that?
Will the tri-Y's fit the 351?
Will my rebuilt posi 8" rear be OK if I'm gentle? Anything else I've forgotten?
I don't know what I'm getting myself into...

Flying Dutchman · Feb 13, 2013

As for the reverse rotation that means the dist turns other way . 351 in a 68 clearence to shock towers.

Mr67Stang · Feb 13, 2013

I have a 351w in my '67. No problem with shock tower clearence. Your 8 inch will hold up fine. I would stick with a front sump pan but be sure the oil pump is suitable for the "reverse" rotation. I'm not sure but I don't think having your oil pump sump blowing bubbles into your pan would be a good thing. The TKO 500 will bolt right up. I saved the biggie for last. Will the Tri-Y's fit? I would put money on it if you have a cable clutch set up, but if you have the old Z-bar and linkage like me. I'm not sure if they would or would not.

horse sence · Feb 13, 2013

from the little i read on line if the engine is running backwards you will need a reverse starter as well. the problem i see is if the crank is rotating backwards ,how does the transmition work?wouldn't it rotate back wards as well? i believe this is a marine aplication, and my next question would be why,what purpose would it serve?

Rmoore45 · Feb 13, 2013

To clear the "reverse rotation" up, it means that it has a reverse rotation water pump. That motor was designed for a serpentine belt system and with the way the belt routing the water pump rotates the opposite direction. The timing cover has different water pump holes so that the water is ran the other direction through the block.

To stick with the v belt setup you will need a standard rotation water pump and the timing cover to go with it.

Here is a pic of the different timing covers, standard is on the left reverse is on the right. Notice the different water ports and the lack of a fuel pump mount on the right one.

Hack · Feb 13, 2013

Rmoore45 said:
To clear the "reverse rotation" up, it means that it has a reverse rotation water pump. That motor was designed for a serpentine belt system and with the way the belt routing the water pump rotates the opposite direction. The timing cover has different water pump holes so that the water is ran the other direction through the block.

To stick with the v belt setup you will need a standard rotation water pump and the timing cover to go with it.

Here is a pic of the different timing covers, standard is on the left reverse is on the right. Notice the different water ports and the lack of a fuel pump mount on the right one.

YES! Glad to see someone who knew what they were talking about answering the question.

horse sence · Feb 13, 2013

Hack said:
YES! Glad to see someone who knew what they were talking about answering the question.

no , this motor is actualy reverse rotation set up for marine aplication and v drive . the entire rotating assembly rotates the oposite direction. the cam gear and dist drive gear is changed to make tham rotate the correct direction so the oil pump will work

horse sence · Feb 13, 2013

check out www.network54 .com/forum

Rmoore45 · Feb 13, 2013

Well normally when we talk about reverse rotation on the forum it has to due with the water pump. If the motor rotates in reverse then you will need a different camshaft and possibly distributor.

horse sence · Feb 13, 2013

i believe he is talking about an actual reverse turn motor and not the water pump
you should be able to change the cam,distributor gear ,water pump and starter and firing order and the motor will rotate as normal. if a reverse turn motor were instaled you would have ,with a five speed ,1 forward gear ,that was reverse. and five reverse speeds that were forward gears.don't think the trany would like it but you could go real fast backwards.

woodsnake · Feb 13, 2013

The link didn't work....There is nothing in the part number that indicates the engine is for a marine application. In this case, the "reverse rotation" does refer to the direction of flow, through the water pump.
http://www.performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-6007-A351R.pdf
The only thing that should be required are the correct oil pan and timing cover. The headers will fit the head, but clearance under the car, may be a problem, as the W has a taller deck height. The current exhaust may also need an inch or so added, if it has an "H" pipe already installed.

horse sence · Feb 13, 2013

that would be great if that is the case ,i would double check to be safe

horse sence · Feb 13, 2013

found it www.fordracingparts .com , this is disscontinued. this motor is correct rotation,just the water pump is reverse so no problems other than oil pan ,timing cover and water pump will need to be replaced. it was hard to find,possibly because it is disscontinued.

68conv5sp · Feb 14, 2013

OK. Thanks, guys. I was totally stumped by the marine engine theory. Here is the next question: This crate engine has been sitting in a warehouse since it was built about 10 years ago. I would think that the assembly lube would keep everything from getting sticky except perhaps the rings. Unless assembly lube is used on the rings?

68conv5sp · Feb 14, 2013

Rmoore45 said:
To clear the "reverse rotation" up, it means that it has a reverse rotation water pump. That motor was designed for a serpentine belt system and with the way the belt routing the water pump rotates the opposite direction. The timing cover has different water pump holes so that the water is ran the other direction through the block.

RMoore, Thanks for the picture. That helped.

To stick with the v belt setup you will need a standard rotation water pump and the timing cover to go with it.

Here is a pic of the different timing covers, standard is on the left reverse is on the right. Notice the different water ports and the lack of a fuel pump mount on the right one.

horse sence · Feb 15, 2013

68conv5sp said:
OK. Thanks, guys. I was totally stumped by the marine engine theory. Here is the next question: This crate engine has been sitting in a warehouse since it was built about 10 years ago. I would think that the assembly lube would keep everything from getting sticky except perhaps the rings. Unless assembly lube is used on the rings?

depends on how it was stored. a motor in storage for a long period of time can swet in side but i have had motors set for longer than that without a problem. i would think if it were primed very well the bottom end would be fine.possibly remove the sparkplugs and spray a mist of light oil in the cylinders and hand turn the moter a few turns.

ford does sell a reverse rotation crate motor,for marine aplications that is called reverse rotation motor .beter safe than sorry,but the numbers check out

Hack · Feb 15, 2013

horse sence said:
found it www.fordracingparts .com , this is disscontinued. this motor is correct rotation,just the water pump is reverse so no problems other than oil pan ,timing cover and water pump will need to be replaced. it was hard to find,possibly because it is disscontinued.

That's correct.

I actually looked it up before answering the question.

That's how I got it right the first time.

Sorry if I came off as rude. Just that incorrect answers on the internet can be difficult to sort through. I've been guilty of not double checking my information as well. I do my best to either check it first or don't post the information if I don't want to take the time to look it up. Sometimes people post the wrong info and I don't even post because it's just not worth the hassle. Hopefully readers of the forum go through enough threads to figure out which posters are more typically correct vs. ...

bartl · Feb 17, 2013

You'll need a front sump oil pan and pickup, a 3/8 press-in plug for the dipstick hole in the block, just reuse your 302's timing cover, fuel pump and water pump, a fuel pump eccentric for the cam sprocket, and if you're running the OE clutch release linkage, a pivot ball adapter for the engine side. I doubt if your existing headers will fit. A stock 8 inch will handle 400hp as long as you don't run slicks. If you currently have the "small" bellhousing and 157-tooth flywheel you should be fine re-using your existing block separator plate. Don't know if you'll get away with the dropped motor mounts. You may want to consider some Ron Morris adjustable ones. HTH.

How hard will this engine swap be?

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