hurst short throw problems

Settle down pal. If you drove a car with an MGW adjusted the way you liked it (not your so called buddy's) you'd change your tune. I've removed 2 Hurst shifters for guys that couldn't be happier to get rid of that stamped steel junk. I personally know of 3 people on the net that had their Hurst shift handle bolt holes ''egg out'' and the parts are ruined. That thing is nothing but a cheap OEM stamping with a shorter throw. That's it. I know some of you guys just have to have the ''Hurst look'' because looks are more important than functionality and I think that's sad. Take your car out on the street and tach up to 6500 rpm's in 2nd gear, keep your gas pedal on the floor and hit third gear as fast as your arm will allow while keeping on the gas and report back.

That shifter Hurst is coming out with soon is a billet version which is of higher quality, but it has a RIGID MOUNTED REMOTE BEAM which is not the way to go. It's just like a Steeda triax or Pro50. They suck in high HP applications unless you have a k-member brace with torque limiters. Just the facts here.

Here's the new Hurst > http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=74574

I could see look over function statement if you couldn't shift it, but thats not the case, it shifts just fine. I might buy into all this hurst bashing if I didn't have one and use it daily. I don't know why your having touble power shifting or wobling out the eye's. If we ever met on the street I'll show you how to shift a hurst. The hurst rep knows all about the MGW and says the new hurst will be better that for the money. He told me when it was finished he would let me demo one and if I didn't like it, it would be mine for free. So I maybe switching shifters, but to another hurst. I don't know why it bothers the MGW people so much that some of us perfer hurst. I get the same grief from my chevy buddies because I perfere ford. To make everyone happy I'll just get a new camero with an MGW shifter ha ha. It won't work with the challenger since they will be automatic for the first year, I guess I could do a B&M HEE HEE. I'm not saying MGW is junk, I just now and allways have used and perfered hurst. Yes, it does look better and fits the retro styling of the new stang. I'll let you know what I think of the new hurst when I get it. He took my name and number and is suposed to let me know when it's ready to demo. I see no reason we can't have style and function. At least I haven't striped the knob off power shifting like I did a few times back in the 70's at Norwalk, all though one of the shifters was a Mr. Gasket. The Mr. Gasket headquaters that owns hurst and holley is here in Cleveland. I helped landscape thier building back in the 80's.

Let's not get into an argument about this, but I can tell you that my car couldn't be speed shifted with that billet Hurst shifter they have coming out. It's no different than the other billet models where the remote mounted beam has absolutely no ability to flex with the transmission.This is the first car I've ever owned that has the shifter mounted to the body and tranny rather than just the tranny like it should be. When the tail piece of the tranny twists from the torque of the engine that solid mounted beam will not twist with it. It can't, it's bolted solid and rigidly. This causes the whole shifter mechanism geometry to be altered to a point where it's not manageable. It's a fact that some guys with stock 3-valve stangs (or close to stock) have no trouble shifting with the Hursts, Triax, Pro50, etc. Some do, some don't. My son's car shifted fine until the blower went on. He either needed the MGW shifter or a k-member brace with torque limiters.

The fact that the MGW shifter comes with sound deadening materials, adjustable throw length and knob positioning features are just the icing on the cake. That new Hurst is supposed to be around $250 plus shipping and if you have a blower or turbo it won't be able to be speed shifted. I see the design clearly in the picture Hurst released. It can't work properly without other modifications to the car. For an extra $50 the MGW is a bargain when you consider it has benefits and advancements in design that can't be matched. The darn thing even has a rubber dust boot on the bottom side of the shifter. I haven't seen that on other shifters close to $300 for these cars.

The bottom line is look around on the other forums and you'll see many '05-up owners selling their Hurst, Steeda, Pro50, B&M, etc.. shifters for the MGW version. Show me one person that's selling an MGW for another brand. It ain't happening. There's a good reason too.....it's the bomb, and I'll do my part to make sure some new member to the forums is not going to be steered in the wrong direction when it comes to this subject. I salute MGW for their superior product!

Ranger04. As I pointed out in my earlier post. I was just about ready to order the Hurst shifter, until after speaking with their tech support rep. And I'll say it once again. He was unable to provide straight answers to my technical questions. In which I was under the impression, he was either doing his very best to avoid them, or just didn't have the expertise to do so. Nor did he seem very interested in being on the phone, as though I were interrupting him from something more important.


Needless to say. That was all it took to completely turn me away. And I personally don't care how good their products are. The bottom line is. when I'm in the process of purchasing somebody's product. I expect to be treated with respect as a potential customer, and that includes providing straight forward answers to each of my technical questions. Otherwise, I'll just take my business to someone else, who sincerely deserves it.

That being said. My reasons for selecting the MGW shifter. Not only is it a superior quality product. But most of all, it's due to excellent customer service as well !

I don't know what to tell you guy's, I did order the hurst and have used it about 6 months now without any problems. Sure the torque wants to hold it in gear as did the stocker, thats why it can"t be babied, you have to mean busines when you shift it. I don't know why ford designed it this way, not thier smartest move. The shifter should be totally independant from the body because of torque flex. You sorta get use to it and adapt. However, thats not a hurst issue, thats a ford brain child that were left to try and work with. It sure makes you miss the old top loader. I'm going to be checking out my option more carefully as like everyone, I expect my power and torque to increase. I'm concidering a pro-charger, if hurst won't cut it then we'll have to check out some other options. I don't intend for a race to be lost at the shifter because it won't release the gear. As for right now I'm fine.

I should start a new thread,, but lets begin here...


Why did ford attach the shifter to the body/ Lessen road/mechanical noise transmitted to the drivers compartment? Lessen shifter movement? Something else?

How much does the tranny move over under high load (Mine is mostly stock the Hurst works great for me,, but I understand the issue)

What has been done about it to eliminate the issue (not a band aid fix like a shifter that works better by covering up the symptoms, but actually fix the issue) Spherical rod end grafted to the shifter/linkage connection? Make a mount for the shifter (MGW, HURST, TriAxe, what ever) that gets it off the body and on to the drive line, so it moves with the transmission?

Anything? Nothing?

bronco78 said:

I should start a new thread,, but lets begin here...


Why did ford attach the shifter to the body/ Lessen road/mechanical noise transmitted to the drivers compartment? Lessen shifter movement? Something else?

How much does the tranny move over under high load (Mine is mostly stock the Hurst works great for me,, but I understand the issue)

What has been done about it to eliminate the issue (not a band aid fix like a shifter that works better by covering up the symptoms, but actually fix the issue) Spherical rod end grafted to the shifter/linkage connection? Make a mount for the shifter (MGW, HURST, TriAxe, what ever) that gets it off the body and on to the drive line, so it moves with the transmission?

Anything? Nothing?

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A CHE K Member Brace with Torque Limiters will stop the transmission from torquing at high RPMs. Then you can use whatever shifter you desire.

I'm not going to get into this debate, because I'll definitely butt heads here.

DarkFireGT said:

A CHE K Member Brace with Torque Limiters will stop the transmission from torquing at high RPMs. Then you can use whatever shifter you desire.

I'm not going to get into this debate, because I'll definitely butt heads here.

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No debate.... Just a question..and I thought discussion.
A better/ different shifter allows shifting when lots of extra HP & TQ is on tap.
"That" shifter overcomes an issue produced by the extra HP
I'll take both of those points at face value

My point/question is.. The install of a MGW shifter has not changed the problem, and I was looking at that as a point of discussion

I fabricate cars, off road vehicles, and motorcycles, not just bolt on pieces that others make(though I do a lot of that also).. It's is one of my interests. I enjoy the build as well as the end result.

I'm making a brace for the panhard bar right now. And a Strut tower brace . Later I'll make more parts, as well as bolt some up that came straight from the manufacture.
I was asking if anyone had addressed the real issue at hand,, Bind caused by body twist.

I guess someone has,, MGW, they built a shifter that works, despite that body twist. That’s great,,, but what about the cause??? That was my question.
If that is butting heads,, Perhaps I have Stangnet all wrong. : shrug: I figured there were people here that enjoyed building as well as bolting on parts. I apologize for hijacking this thread ..
Think I’ll go for a ride in my recently returned to me GT..Have some lunch, then come back to the shop and build some more stuff.

See ya.

I'm sorry, that was a separate thought, not related to your post. I meant I wasn't getting into the Hurst vs MGW debate.

I understand what you're saying. The first part of my response was for you.

DarkFireGT said:

I think some people are just scared to really rip it. The Hurst shifts very quickly and precisely. You just can't be scared of it.

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This is very true. At the track I shift pretty fast and hard, and on the street, it always feels notchy and stiff. Just the nature of the beast.

John

The reason Ford has the shifter mounted to the body in addition to the tranny is because the tailpiece of the tranny is under the immediate area of the car's heater controls. In other words, a top loader shifter would have to be placed too far forward. That's the price we pay for a longer wheelbase. The shifter is mounted where we have it, but it has to be remotely connected to the tranny. The fact that it's remotely connected makes it kind of like a ''wet noodle'' when it comes to feel, so they decided to bolt it to the body too in order to give it a bit of rigidity. The 3650 tranny has the little spool that comes out of the back end of the tranny so it's not like they could have done a set up like this > http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/online/images/remote_shifter.jpg

This set up is for a TKO tranny and it requires a top loader and as you can see it can easily be remotely mounted without the body involved. Pauls High Performance offers a shift right brace for our stock shifters which is a brace that connects to the tranny and I believe eliminates the body mount. I hear it works great with the stock shifter only. I actually hoped MGW's shifter would have had the brace type of mount, but it didn't. The torsion mounts on MGW's remote beam work excellent so I'm happy.

anthony05gt said:

The reason Ford has the shifter mounted to the body in addition to the tranny is because the tailpiece of the tranny is under the immediate area of the car's heater controls. In other words, a top loader shifter would have to be placed too far forward. That's the price we pay for a longer wheelbase. The shifter is mounted where we have it, but it has to be remotely connected to the tranny. The fact that it's remotely connected makes it kind of like a ''wet noodle'' when it comes to feel, so they decided to bolt it to the body too in order to give it a bit of rigidity. The 3650 tranny has the little spool that comes out of the back end of the tranny so it's not like they could have done a set up like this > http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/online/images/remote_shifter.jpg

This set up is for a TKO tranny and it requires a top loader and as you can see it can easily be remotely mounted without the body involved. Pauls High Performance offers a shift right brace for our stock shifters which is a brace that connects to the tranny and I believe eliminates the body mount. I hear it works great with the stock shifter only. I actually hoped MGW's shifter would have had the brace type of mount, but it didn't. The torsion mounts on MGW's remote beam work excellent so I'm happy.

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Anthony. If I'm not mistaken, even if the shift right brace from PHP works great with the stock shifter. You still end up with the same old sloppy long throws right ?

So would you still recommend the MGW, or stick with the stock shifter w/ PHP brace

The PHP brace does work well, but you're still stuck with that piece of crap shifter and it's rubber noodle feel. I absolutely recommend the MGW without any hesitation. I've installed 3 of them and everyone couldn't be happier.

anthony05gt said:

The PHP brace does work well, but you're still stuck with that piece of crap shifter and it's rubber noodle feel. I absolutely recommend the MGW without any hesitation. I've installed 3 of them and everyone couldn't be happier.

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I pretty much suspected you would still be stuck with those sloppy/rubber noodle long throws. At any rate, I'll be placing my MGW order, just before the Stang comes out of winter storage this upcoming spring.

In the meantime, thanks again Anthony

To tell you the turth, the biggest thing that bothered me about the stock shifter was how short it was. I could shift it fine, the throws didn't even bother me, but the shortness was horrid. It's all in what your use to I guess. My hand would rub the top of the console when shifting. I needed a shifter that would get my hand up in the air a little, the hurst does that. It wouldn't bother me even if it was still a little taller. Back in the day it was common for shifters to be about 12" or so. They still are in winston cup cars or sprintcup, whatever there calling them now. It's hard to get old ha ha.

ranger04 said:

To tell you the turth, the biggest thing that bothered me about the stock shifter was how short it was. I could shift it fine, the throws didn't even bother me, but the shortness was horrid. It's all in what your use to I guess. My hand would rub the top of the console when shifting. I needed a shifter that would get my hand up in the air a little, the hurst does that. It wouldn't bother me even if it was still a little taller. Back in the day it was common for shifters to be about 12" or so. They still are in winston cup cars or sprintcup, whatever there calling them now. It's hard to get old ha ha.

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I agree the stock shifter is way too short. Some like it that way though. Back in the old days the seats were up higher and most cars didn't have the center console which made the handles longer for the most part. I've got my shift knob up about 1-1/2'' higher than the stocker.

anthony05gt said:

The PHP brace does work well, but you're still stuck with that piece of crap shifter and it's rubber noodle feel. I absolutely recommend the MGW without any hesitation. I've installed 3 of them and everyone couldn't be happier.

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I'm giving my Hurst one more month of racing, and if I still have problems with it, I'll get one of the MGWs. Here's hoping the MD weather cooperates for March...

John

Doesn't anyone out there use the PRO 5.0 shifters anymore? These shifters were very good on the T5 tranny's. I use to have one on my 89 and 93 coupled with a Steeda Tri-Ax Handle and I loved it, never missed a shift and power shifted all the time (the stops make it full proof). Got one for my 05, coupled with a Hurst chrome handle and ball, just haven't installed it yet, since the weather around here sucks! I to like the retro look of the Hurst Handle/Ball, just my 2 cents.

Anyone else using the Pro 5.0 on their 05 - 08?

Pro50 and Steeda make great shifters when they are top loaders like the older stangs used (pre '05). The problem with the newer cars is the fact that they no longer use a top loader, they use a set up where the shifter is located back behind the transmission which requires the shifter to operate remotely. The new design also has the shifter mounted to the top of the transmission tunnel on the car's body in addition to the transmission itself. When the drivetrain twists under load (even more with turbo or blower) the rigid mounted designs from Steeda and Pro50 have a tendency to bind causing missed shifts and a feeling of the shifter getting stuck in no man's land at times when shifting at high rpm's. MGW is the only shifter manufacterer who has addressed this by adding a pair of torsion mounts on each end of the shifter. One at the transmission and one at the shifter base on the end that's mounted to the car's body. These torsion mounts allow the drivetrain to twist without affecting the shifter's performance. Some people have a hard time understanding that, but most do.

The Hurst shifter is an OEM Ford metal stamping with a shorter throw. The quality is not that good. Hurst is coming out with a new billet version that's made of top shelf materials, but unfortunately has a rigid mounted remote beam basicly exactly like the Pro50 and Steeda Triax versions. When the drivetrain twists the rigid mounted shifter doesn't and that causes problems when high rpm shifting occurs with a high hp/tq level.