hyd clutch

USAF46270 · Oct 28, 2009

I am leaning more to a hydraulic clutch, has anyone had any luck.
my stang is a 67 with a 351C and ten bolt top cover 4 spd.

D.Hearne · Oct 29, 2009

I'm using the McCleod hydro throwout bearing in my 89 Ranger with a Toploader 4 speed. Very reliable, but it can have it's moments in setting it up. I would do a complete rebuild of your stock mechanical linkage before going hydraulic. Everything from the pedal support to the linkage rod at the clutch fork.

Shakin66 · Oct 29, 2009

I too have the Mcleod hyd. throw out bearing and The guru is right. If you dont do your homework in setting it intially you will be pulling your newly installed transmission right back out.....That is experience talking.
Having said that my pedal feels as good as any new car I have driven so in the end all of the work paid off.

68RCodeConv · Oct 29, 2009

Pull your pedal support and have Mustang Steve rollerize it. Get a set of heim-jointed upper and lower clutch rods from Opentracker. The Z-bar must be straight and reinforced. Opentracker will sell you one that is also rollerized but IMO that is a little bit of overkill. Because my z-bar holes were wallowed out I drilled them to 1/2" and then used Hurst shifter bushings to get them back to 3/8".

I have the above setup with a diaphragm clutch and it is as smooth as silk with no slop in it.

2+2GT · Oct 29, 2009

I put Drakes' roller pedal kit in a 428CJ last summer, and it was a pain. The groove in the bearing support is machined too close to the flange, making the wavy washer useless, and the thick reinforcement washer needs to be ground down almost 1/16", too. Once done, however, the resistance and smoothness is a marked improvement. That Cobra Jet clutch could be pushed in by a little girl.

Dunno why they make them that way, the only way you could get the unmodified washer and wavy washer on there is without the pedal support. Even then it'd be a tight fit. If I do another, I may just chuck it up in the lathe and move the groove, there's plenty of room to widen it.

jcode68 · Oct 29, 2009

I love the feel of my hydraulic clutch - mine's a JMC which are no longer available. Was a bitch to bleed initially, but no maintenance since and pedal feel is great. Gives plenty of room for headers as well. Do a search on the forum and you will find lots of threads on this topic.

chris66dad · Oct 29, 2009

We mixed and matched parts for our hydraulic clutch. Cost was about $220 for everything. Ours was for a T5. I preferred the external slave because if there was a problem I would not have to pull the tranny to repair it and the other was cost of the McCleod unit.
Parts used and pictures on our website: Hydraulic clutch

Some people have had issues with moving the Master cylinder heim joint mounting point to a lower position on the clutch pedal. Modern Driveline came out with a really cool solution to solve it. Have not heard of anyone posting results of the installation yet. Here is the link to look at: Modern Driveline - Hydraulics

Good Luck and BE Safe
Ron

D.Hearne · Oct 29, 2009

chris66dad said:
We mixed and matched parts for our hydraulic clutch. Cost was about $220 for everything. Ours was for a T5. I preferred the external slave because if there was a problem I would not have to pull the tranny to repair it and the other was cost of the McCleod unit.
Parts used and pictures on our website: Hydraulic clutch
Ron

Only thing is, there's no room to use an external slave with a Toploader 4 speed. The shifter and linkage tend to get in the way. If it hadn't been for that little fact, I'd have used one instead of the McCleod unit.

chris66dad · Oct 29, 2009

Good point. Toploaders do occupy lots of room in the tunnel.

USAF46270 · Oct 31, 2009

I am still looking, Mcleod has a kit, should be just about everything I need.

jbuening · Oct 31, 2009

Shakin66 said:
I too have the Mcleod hyd. throw out bearing and The guru is right. If you dont do your homework in setting it intially you will be pulling your newly installed transmission right back out.....That is experience talking.

Care to elaborate? I was planning on using the McLeod hyd throwout bearing instead of the slave/fork setup in my T56 but have been reading some bad stuff about setting up the hyd TO bearings. Tips/tricks or problems you've encountered?

D.Hearne · Nov 1, 2009

jbuening said:
Care to elaborate? I was planning on using the McLeod hyd throwout bearing instead of the slave/fork setup in my T56 but have been reading some bad stuff about setting up the hyd TO bearings. Tips/tricks or problems you've encountered?

The McCleod used to have leakage problems with the banjo fittings, but they've since fixed them. You DO have to be somewhat precise in setting the clearance adjustment as there's very little travel involved with the unit vs an external slave. But it's not a big deal. Once it's set and if you're using a quality clutch & pressure plate (I'm using a Centerforce dual friction set on mine) it may be years before you need to adjust it (if any, it all depends on how much you're going to drive it). I've only had to readjust mine once since I went to the dual friction clutch, and that was several years ago. Does the T56 have an integral bellhousing ? Or is it separate from the transmission ? If it's integral, then setting the adjustment will be trickier and more critical than if it's separate. With the Toploader I can slide the transmission back enough (I made some 4" long guide pins from old small block head bolts for this) to adjust the bearing clearance without pulling the transmission. But now thinking about this, with a T56. I would go with an external slave setup before ever thinking about the McCleod unit. You don't have the external shifter linkage to deal with, so there's more room for the external slave.

amorrow · Nov 3, 2009

Another option to consider is Cobra Automotive's kit using a Tilton master and throwout bearing; I am very pleased with this kit on my '65. As mentioned, be sure to use an appropriate amount of shimming/clearancing to achieve the recommended clearance between the bearing and pressure plate fingers/diaphram. And it also helps to have access to a machine shop for the drilling required for the bellhousing, and clearancing of the Toploader bearing retainer. But simply following Tilton's instructions, I thought the install [including bleeding] was a breeze, ample room was left for large-tube headers, and the pedal feel is very good.

jbuening · Nov 3, 2009

D.Hearne said:
The McCleod used to have leakage problems with the banjo fittings, but they've since fixed them. You DO have to be somewhat precise in setting the clearance adjustment as there's very little travel involved with the unit vs an external slave. But it's not a big deal. Once it's set and if you're using a quality clutch & pressure plate (I'm using a Centerforce dual friction set on mine) it may be years before you need to adjust it (if any, it all depends on how much you're going to drive it). I've only had to readjust mine once since I went to the dual friction clutch, and that was several years ago. Does the T56 have an integral bellhousing ? Or is it separate from the transmission ? If it's integral, then setting the adjustment will be trickier and more critical than if it's separate. With the Toploader I can slide the transmission back enough (I made some 4" long guide pins from old small block head bolts for this) to adjust the bearing clearance without pulling the transmission. But now thinking about this, with a T56. I would go with an external slave setup before ever thinking about the McCleod unit. You don't have the external shifter linkage to deal with, so there's more room for the external slave.

Thanks for the info! What do you mean my integral bell? The trans has a bellhousing, midplate, and then the main trans body.

I worry about clutch fork clearance with the wider T56 and my hooker comp headers. The Cobra T56 has the fork in the 7 o'clock position, which if I recall correctly is right where the tubes pass the fork.

dbfarr · Nov 5, 2009

chris66dad said:
Some people have had issues with moving the Master cylinder heim joint mounting point to a lower position on the clutch pedal. Modern Driveline came out with a really cool solution to solve it. Have not heard of anyone posting results of the installation yet. Here is the link to look at: Modern Driveline - Hydraulics

Oh yeah, 'call for pricing and application,' that's gonna be cheap

dbfarr · Nov 5, 2009

chris66dad said:
We mixed and matched parts for our hydraulic clutch. Cost was about $220 for everything. Ours was for a T5. I preferred the external slave because if there was a problem I would not have to pull the tranny to repair it and the other was cost of the McCleod unit.
Parts used and pictures on our website: Hydraulic clutch

Some people have had issues with moving the Master cylinder heim joint mounting point to a lower position on the clutch pedal. Modern Driveline came out with a really cool solution to solve it. Have not heard of anyone posting results of the installation yet. Here is the link to look at: Modern Driveline - Hydraulics

Good Luck and BE Safe
Ron

Jokes aside, I have nearly the same setup. I used the cnc master and an s10 reservoir.

My question is, when you bled the system, how far did the actual cylinder in the slave go. Was it past the threshold of the case or just flush with the beveling.

Mine was flush with the beveling in the case.

I would love to know, before I pull the system for a bench bleed. Time is short these days and the car doesn't like to go into reverse. I'm not sure if the problem is inadequate preload or air in the system.

chris66dad · Nov 5, 2009

dbfarr said:
Jokes aside, I have nearly the same setup. I used the cnc master and an s10 reservoir.

My question is, when you bled the system, how far did the actual cylinder in the slave go. Was it past the threshold of the case or just flush with the beveling.

Mine was flush with the beveling in the case.

I would love to know, before I pull the system for a bench bleed. Time is short these days and the car doesn't like to go into reverse. I'm not sure if the problem is inadequate preload or air in the system.

I used a brake bleeder connected to my air compressor to get the air out.
I have 1 inch stroke at the slave
I also had problems with it not going into reverse until I adjusted the preload on the clutch (10.5 inch King Cobra and TO bearing) and that resolved the issue. I think it was about an 1/8" of preload after the TO bearing was against the clutch. My clutch releases about 1/4 from the top on the pedal.
Here is an excellent thread I bookmarked when I was setting mine up.
T5 hydraulic clutch insufficient travel. - MustangForums.com. Helped me tweak it and it has been problem free after I set it up.

Good Luck and BE Safe
Ron

D.Hearne · Nov 6, 2009

jbuening said:
Thanks for the info! What do you mean my integral bell? The trans has a bellhousing, midplate, and then the main trans body.

I worry about clutch fork clearance with the wider T56 and my hooker comp headers. The Cobra T56 has the fork in the 7 o'clock position, which if I recall correctly is right where the tubes pass the fork.

Integral bell = the bellhousing is permanently fixed to the transmission main case. Or can only be removed by pulling the whole unit to access the bell-to-case-bolts from inside the bell. I see your concern about the fork positioning in relation to the headers.

dbfarr · Nov 6, 2009

Is that how far mine should go?

10secgoal · Nov 8, 2009

Eh, that's out a little far. But how far it comes out depends on the size of the slave the MC bore. With a 7/8 push slave like you have there and a 3/4 bore slave, that's a bit more than I remember, but probably OK.

The Hyd bearings are a bit of a pain to set up. But by far the easiest to bleed. Just like brakes. But the pedal compared to the other systems are a little stiffer because there is no leverage in them. They are straight 1-1. If you use a lever like in the stock bell, there is leverage you can use to make it easier on yourself. I'd say the push slave is second in bleeding. 3rd would be a suggestion you could look into USAF. Each has there on trick which I've found that makes each actually really easy to bleed. The 3rd is a pull slave. The hardest just because you have to operate it by hand many time to bleed it. But an easy adapt to a toploader.

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