I figured out what I hate about my car..

[S351Saleen77]

I will try to dig the cam specs up. According to Rick it is a little radical for a DD. If he says that than it prolly is bc he is a tracker at heart.

"414ci 10.45:1comp

Hyd Roller CAM SPECS @ .050" .586/.584 248/254 108cl 112lsa (power will be around 3200-6500rpm)"

I don't know what 248/254 means ..or 108 ..or 112 to be honest lol.

I have almost the same cam as you! I have 245/254 and I think 110/112 If I remember right on the 110/112. The first #'s are the duration and ours are pretty close.
The 108 will give a little more "choppy" idle...I had one in at 108 but my changed it for the custom comp cam...I actually liked the old one better!

It's all in the tune.......I have Accel Gen 7 DFI and it has a lot of tune ability....but it's a Huge amount of money. I have no bucking in 5th gear or really above 2k RPM cruising.
I would think that if you found the right tuner you could get your drive ability pretty good. Or get Grady to put the as ZZ top would say "Coon Tune" on it!
But yes it is a pretty healthy cam for a daily driver!

Or drop down in duration in the mid to low 230's and it would be a lot mellower and give a much better idle which I think you are looking for. You can get those desktop dyno programs and put in all your motor and cam spec's and see what it says for HP...then put in another milder cam you might want and see how much it drops. Not that it will be exactly what you have dynoed at but it will show pretty close what you will give up. I will look I have a program that I could see if I can copy..if not I could send you the disk if you send it back. I have "Desktop Dyno 2000" I'm sure they have a newer version out now but it's pretty cool to run different combo's!

Let me know if you change your cam out, I would be interested in buying it off you.

 

[95Vert383AOD]

I put cats back on my car...BIG IMPROVEMENT. Right now my cam is about a .540 lift. My car actually idles pretty smooth. Ive gotten my 383 to play nice with NO CHIP. No check engine light and the exhaust is practically odorless. Every now and then the computer wants to fight the 900rpm idle. Not sure if my neutral balance rotating assembly takes away vibration. I also use solid mounts and a urethane trans mount. I was thinking of urethane motor mounts to ease vibration even further.

I don't mind mild vibration or a lope. I just hate the sound. I think my cats do a better job of quieting the exhaust than my mac chambered mufflers.

Chris

 

[S351Saleen77]

I put cats back on my car...BIG IMPROVEMENT. Right now my cam is about a .540 lift. My car actually idles pretty smooth. Ive gotten my 383 to play nice with NO CHIP. No check engine light and the exhaust is practically odorless. Every now and then the computer wants to fight the 900rpm idle. Not sure if my neutral balance rotating assembly takes away vibration. I also use solid mounts and a urethane trans mount. I was thinking of urethane motor mounts to ease vibration even further.

I don't mind mild vibration or a lope. I just hate the sound. I think my cats do a better job of quieting the exhaust than my mac chambered mufflers.

Chris

Chris,
What is your LCL, LSA?

.540 lift does not mean anything on how the car will run. If your car idles smooth with a stock computer and solid motor mounts @ 900rpm you don't have a cam anything like what we have.

The cam he has is pretty radical and will not give a smooth idle @ 900rpm with that much duration.

 

[Venom351R]

Mine runs and idles very well (tuned also). It has a nice smooth idle at 1,000 RPM's. It still has some very slight bucking at low 1st gear driving or lugging it along in second but its sporadic, does not do it every time.

Here are my cam specs.

Lobe Lift: .378/.353

Gross Valve lift: .605/.565

Duration @.50: 228/232

Lobe Separation: 113*

 

[Pokageek]

Taking in all ur comments:
S351Saleen77 - I will check out that program out on HP. I am very interested! On the cam, I will talk to Rick on Tues and see what he says. If I can sell mine, then it might be worth it.
Chris - I really like the cats idea but the last time I put cats on it destroyed my HP. .. that was with pro-comps tho...any suggestions or anyone have #'s?

 

[1slow95]

Here's what my idle sounds like with a 240/248 duration and 114 LSA. This is around 800 rpm.
YouTube - 95 Mustang GT 418W idle clip

It sounds better now since I've done some tuning. I'll get some new videos one of these days.

 

[Pokageek]

Ok, I put in as much as I could on the engine analyzer..and from that the resulting decrease of 30rwhp going to a 230/230 duration...

 

[juiced_94gt]

Well it looks like a few of us are of the same mind set. Last year when I installed the KB and built the engine and installed an O/R H pipe it was just way to loud. This past week I installed a complete Magnaflow cat back and it's still to loud (except at idle). Driving with the top down is deafening at 2000 rpm. So, who again, has the hi flow quiet mufflers?

I will say it again, you need to get Borla ProXS mufflers, they are the quietest mufflers you can buy and to boot they are the highest flowing out there, I went from Bassani's to these on my cammed 331 and it was night and day, even with a off road x-pipe the car is very tame through the entire RPM range, give them a try you wont be dissapointed and they have a way better tone than the magnaflows do trust me, i've had them too. for comparisson, this is with the new set up, off road x-pipe and borla proXS



and this is with the same set up but with a bassani catback

View attachment 256664

 

[Venom351R]

Heres mine at idle, like I said it idles great and the driveabilty is very nice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrCxcgji_XA

 

[95Vert383AOD]

OK guys. Heres my cam specs from the Manufacturers site

Cam Only - Lopey Idle - .510/.534 Lift
Designed to suit the needs of entry level race classes
Cam only
Idle = Lopey RPM Range = 1800 to 6500
Torque Peak = Low-Mid Adv. Duration = 289/299
Duration at .050 = 222/232 Lift = .510/.534
Centerline = 107/117
**I'm using 1.72 Rockers so the actual lift is a lil higher


My cams alot more tame than i thought. Heres a fresh video of it running with cats installed. What do you guys think? Personally the car actually feels a little faster after i installed the cats. But that could be me.

And here is before the Cats


Chris
No Chip on either Video. No check engine light

 

[final5-0]

The PMS doesn't take over until 4k RPM bc they said it would drive better...does anyone have suggestions on this item?

Well ... Somehow or the other ... I missed this part the other day

I got a thought here
but
Since I know nothing about the PMS ... its just a thought

IIRC seems like I've seen others say it has the ability to be triggered by rpm
in the past

If it does nothing until 4K and above .........

Therein lies the problem with the drivability issues :Word:

I'd have to say 90% or above of those issues would need to be addressed
W A Y before 4K

Grady

 

[Pokageek]

Well ... Somehow or the other ... I missed this part the other day

I got a thought here
but
Since I know nothing about the PMS ... its just a thought

IIRC seems like I've seen others say it has the ability to be triggered by rpm
in the past

If it does nothing until 4K and above .........

Therein lies the problem with the drivability issues :Word:

I'd have to say 90% or above of those issues would need to be addressed
W A Y before 4K

Grady

Good point Grady. I will check into it.

 

[final5-0]

I'd venture a guess the issues (bucking & surging) are right around 2K and
most likely are below 2K

Grady

 

[BlackVert]

here are my cam specs:

Duration at .050 - 230 / 230
Lobe lift - .3400 / .3400
Lobe seperation - 112
Seat duration at 006 - 290 / 290
Gross valve lift - .544 / .544
Valve lash (hot) - Hyd / Hyd
Degreee intake lobe to - 110 atdc
Seat timing, int 5 BTDC 45 ABDC 110
Seat timing, exh 49 BBDC 1 ATDC 114

i guess it's not as radical as many of the others, but it does have a 112 lsa and 290 degrees of open with 60 degrees of overlap. the idle is rock solid at about 800 and it doesn't buck at all. i can cruise up a hill at 60 mph in 4th which is about 1500 rpm and it is happy. then again, i have put a good bit of time into tuning it too

 

[94gsl5.0]

Don't give up... you'll get the tune down then you'll wonder how you ever drove your car without the big motor.

 

[S351Saleen77]

Wow! Thanks for posting all the cam spec's. It seems a lot of you have pretty mild cams ....especially for 351 strokers which is why they have a good idle.

When you get up to the mid 240 deg on the intake and mid 250 deg on the exhaust you will give up things. Drop 15-20 degree's is huge...another 15-20 is stock spec's. So Keith's cam is on the wild side with 30-40 more than a stock cam...but if the PMS is not doing anything until 4k that's another story.

I remember before how he didn't like a rough idle......his cam will never idle smooth @ 800-900rpm.

Mike, I do love the sound of your cam!
You say you got smoked by a hci 302 was it traction related? You will have so much more torque that it is harder to hook up. A Lot of times it's the driver..(I'm not saying anything about you)
But like #77 if I give it too much throttle it will just spin the tires...you have to finesse it and thats hard with a guy next to you!

Tom

 

[nmcgrawj]

Which PMS do you have where it doesnt start until 4k rpms? Thats gotta be a PMS thats 2 generations old! Do they still offer an upgrade for about $250?



And i am assuming you know nothing about the PMS and have someone else tuning it. The PMS CAN.....i will say it again...it CAN tune before 4,000rpms. The generation that has standalone starting at 4,000rpms is old. The new ones start a good bit lower than that. Regardless, you dont need standalone to tune these problems out. All standalone does is take the stock computer out of the equation. On your PMS, before 4k rpms you can still adjust timing and fuel. Its so freakin easy you should spend a night of reading to understand how the PMS works. I promise if you go out and cruise around late at night on the freeway when you can find those "touchy" spots where it sputters/bucks, bump the timing up(or is it down? I havent tuned in so long i forget which one causes sputtering) and add/decrease fuel. You arent applying a high load and you are n/a, so go in small increments and you will fix the problem.

 

[1slow95]

Mike, I do love the sound of your cam!
You say you got smoked by a hci 302 was it traction related? You will have so much more torque that it is harder to hook up. A Lot of times it's the driver..(I'm not saying anything about you)
But like #77 if I give it too much throttle it will just spin the tires...you have to finesse it and thats hard with a guy next to you!

Tom

Thanks!

I had my tune screwed up and the car struggled to pull past 4k. I was just out cruising and didn't plan on racing, then this guy pulled up beside me and.....well you can figure out the rest. It sounds like a very healthy 306, probably 300+rwhp if I had to guess. I think it has more cam lope than my car!

 

[Pokageek]

Which PMS do you have where it doesnt start until 4k rpms? Thats gotta be a PMS thats 2 generations old! Do they still offer an upgrade for about $250?



And i am assuming you know nothing about the PMS and have someone else tuning it. The PMS CAN.....i will say it again...it CAN tune before 4,000rpms. The generation that has standalone starting at 4,000rpms is old. The new ones start a good bit lower than that. Regardless, you dont need standalone to tune these problems out. All standalone does is take the stock computer out of the equation. On your PMS, before 4k rpms you can still adjust timing and fuel. Its so freakin easy you should spend a night of reading to understand how the PMS works. I promise if you go out and cruise around late at night on the freeway when you can find those "touchy" spots where it sputters/bucks, bump the timing up(or is it down? I havent tuned in so long i forget which one causes sputtering) and add/decrease fuel. You arent applying a high load and you are n/a, so go in small increments and you will fix the problem.

I am pretty sure it will tune under 4k RPM. I am going to read up on this like you said. Rick is making me a new cam. This will give me more power down low and less up top peak or bragging number but I dont care. I am looking for smoother operation and less violent. We figure this will kill the bucking and surging, calm down the LT issue a bit, etc.. There's no way to tune out the bucking of that cam I am pretty sure. We could take more fuel but that could cause a lean condition.

 

[Pokageek]

My car sounds like an alcohol car compared to all of yours. Its even more radical than Mike's. I will figure out how to post a vid.

Ok, looks like we are going 112-114 LSA. 110-112cl, 230's duration and more lift. What does lift do for me?