I need some opinions Please!

[SeriousSN95]

Hi, well as you can see this is my first post because im new on stangnet. Ive been getting ALOT of very good useful info of the forums the past month ive been on the site. Well heres my "clencher." I can get a full 5.0 Efi engine from a friend with about 80-90k on it for a 100$ or i can get a 351w carb for 200, i plan on puting it on a stand and building it. Heres the routes i want to go. Should i get the efi, put rebuilt p heads or (351w heads), p headers(or L/t on the 351w heads) , upper and lower Gt tubular intake with an F cam? Or should i get the 351w take the heads off, get them done, get a good big cam (.500 range) a nice intake manifold and a good carb, and headers and call it a day?
which engine will make more power and cost less but be better to run for a street/weekend track car. Its going to go into a 94 gt 5.0 hardtop. Ill be swithing from the Aode to a th350 with an adapter plate and a 3000 stall. Please any info that you can give please do because i dont want to waste my money. thanks! Shawn *SeriousSn95*


1994 Rio red Gt 5.0... Fully Built Aode, p/i 2600 stall, boosted line pressure, B&m stage 3 shift kit, tweeked valve body, 4.10s, aluminum diff. cover, MSD wires coil cap rotor, autolite plugs, mac fenderwell intake, 10' timing bump, eibach pro kit, sensatrac shocks, Raybestos Ceramic pads all the way around,17x9 REAL FRPP cobra R rims with 255s Falkins in the front and 275 mickey tompson ET street slicks in the rear. I just turned 18 and have had the car for one year when it was bone stock, lol on a high school kids budget too.

 

[xkuntrycowboyx]

I personally like 351's and think theres more potential power there. since it is also a bigger version of the 302. And if you have knowlege or someone who can tune up that carb afterwards. MHO would be you're ahead of the 302 already. might cost a little less in parts too. the efi would require some tuning mods prob after and mmaybe a chip. whereas the 351 after getting ur heads done. and a nice intake and carb, just dial in that carb and ur puttin down nice power for not a whole lot of money and work.

i just got a 351w with a cam, performer intake, and edlebrock carb in a truck... and i think it would outrun my mustang..(check my sig for its mods) ...truck tho gotta fix an idle issue.

i vote the 351

 

[jorge.pena]

To serious SN 95

There is nothing truer than the following statement," There's no replacement for displacement" I drive a 95 GT myself and did what everybody does at the beggining, i.e. spent buttloads of money trying to squeeze power out of my 5.0. Finally I saw the light, yanked out the 5.0 and dropped in a DSS 357 c.i. windsor.With out of the box Twisted Wedge heads and a little E303 cam the car put down 320 hp and 352 lb/ft of torque. in other woeds GO WITH THE 351, it has more power potential, (you can bore and stroke all the way to 400 plus c.i.) and because of it's size you can get 350-400 hp easy on a car with a preety mild cam and good street manners. Just be carefull,don't over cam, over carb,and don't go crazy on the converter, you want to be able to drive on the street without being one of those guys that have to turn 3,000 rpm just to get the car moving. Bigger is not always better when it comes to cams & carbs. you need to match parts it's all about having the right combination.

 

[Pokageek]

I like the sound of a 5.0 better than any other engine and can get more than enough power out of it. That being said, 351 is a great engine too.

 

[bill302]

get the 351w take the heads off, get them done, get a good big cam (.500 range) a nice intake manifold and a good carb, and headers and call it a day?

your exact quote above and call it a good day! alot of good info here already. and how about running a demon carb.

 

[SeriousSN95]

Hey everyone that posted thanks for the awesome advice, you're all right lol. Im gettin the 351... the truth is in the statement "no replacement for displacment" i talked to a really knowledgable friend and he said to get the engine internals checked: if okay, put a set of forged trw pistons (leave in stock rods and crank) get the heads shaved a little bit,a 3 angle valve job, a performer rpm manifold (1500-6000) rpms range, a demon carb, or holley 650 d/p and then to tie it all together go 10 mins down the road to crane cams and get a custom grind cam matched to what i have. Sound good?
Please all the suggestions will greatly help!~ thanks posters'!

 

[bill302]

sounds great! and i forgot earlier, welcome to :SNSign:

 

[jorge.pena]

To serious SN95

Once I built a 361 windsor (boredover 351) with basically the same set up your'e thinking of, forged pistons, stock crank and rods (thoroughly worked over of course) AFR 185's, Victor Jr. intake,Street Demon 680 and a custom grind from comp cams to match. It put down over 400 hp at the wheels.
What I'm saying is, good choice and you will be very happy with the results.

 

[wytstang]

What no pics of your car

 

[SeriousSN95]

Thanks jorge for the specs and everyone else for the advice. sorry WYtstang for not havin pics. like i said i just got on to stangnet so i need a lil bit of time to get my stuff together but ya jorge you said the stock crank and rods you used, what do you mean by highly worked over? and also does any one on here have any 351 cleveland heads for sale? My friend said theres a huge power gain by blting them on but i guess you have to modify the colling valleys or sumthing? If anyone has any advice or experience please help me out! Thanks everyone!

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

Welcome fellow 18 yearolder and Floridian! To me when I think of 351, I think of $$$ to install it(doesnt clear hood usually, distributer,etc etc,), extra weight, and less room. While thier is no replacement for displacement, you can substitute technology and/or boost to get to that power level. For as long as I can see into the future, my car will be a 302 based motor, and then maybe a 281 based motor.....but no big Windsors for me. Oh and im interested in the motor you found for $100, care to share some info?

 

[xkuntrycowboyx]

a 650 is not a d/p as you put it... its a dual line feed..not a true double pumper, ppl commonly mistake, or just misphrase..

ALSO... just my opinion but a true double pumper sounds a little big right now... but a holley 650 might b good
....just thought i would share. whatever...deff go 4bbl, im sure you already figured that out tho.

later, Adam

 

[jorge.pena]

to Serious SN95

What I mean by worked over is the usual race prep, shot pinned,magna fluxed, re size the rods if needed, radius, scoop and chamfer the crank and balance the whole rotating assembly. as far as the comments about how expensive the swap is going to be, that is not the case. the 5.0 & 5.8 blocks are the same the only difference is that the 5.8 has taller decks so the engine is going to be a little taller and a little wider, other than that, everything bolts right up to your 5.0 mounting points. Mine is fuel injected and I have plenty of room to do whatever I need to do. on a carburated set up you'll have even more room because you wont have as much crap under the hood, not to mention that mine is emmissions legal so I still have all that junk under my hood. As far as clearance issues with the hood, it all depends on what intake you use. I had to replace my hood with a 4 inch cowl because I'm running a Trick Flow intake that's bigger than life. furtunately for you, most carb intakes are a lot lower than their fuel injected brothers. The only parts that you might need to buy (and that depends on how complete the 351 you're buying is.) The dampener, the two engines have different balance. the distributor, and for sure the headders, the exhaust ports sit higher so your headders have to be a little longer so it alligns with your cat back system. They're called swap headders, I got mine from Ford Racing.
As far as the cleveland heads go, they do produce more power but they don't fit on a windsor without modifications. if at all. the mods would probably cost you more than alum.heads. so if money is an issue, get the stock heads worked over.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Be careful. Put 302 parts on a 351(even "351" stock heads are meant for a 302 IMO, unless maybe u have the 69 351 heads) and you will get 302 power. You might have a slightly better torque curve, but nothing earth shattering i would think.

A h/c/i 302 would probably beat a stock headed 351. They are just choked up! 5.0's are choked up from the factory so the 351 is just twice as bad. What im saying is if you can swing it, even if u wait another month, dont put ANY cash into those stock heads. Just get a used set of aluminum heads. You can get twisted wedges in the classifieds for about $700-$800. This will be a much better move in my opinion. I just think that a stock headed 351 would be terribly slow. Slower than a stock headed 302 due to the extra weight.

Bottom line, ya gotta take advantage of the extra cubes. You cant treat it like its a small motor.

And my 351 doesnt sound that much different than a 5.0. Matter of fact, it just sounds like a REALLY POWERFUL 5.0. LOL I mean, its the same engine...just bigger. So it sounds deeper...and more powerful

 

[nmcgrawj]

What I mean by worked over is the usual race prep, shot pinned,magna fluxed, re size the rods if needed, radius, scoop and chamfer the crank and balance the whole rotating assembly. as far as the comments about how expensive the swap is going to be, that is not the case. the 5.0 & 5.8 blocks are the same the only difference is that the 5.8 has taller decks so the engine is going to be a little taller and a little wider, other than that, everything bolts right up to your 5.0 mounting points. Mine is fuel injected and I have plenty of room to do whatever I need to do. on a carburated set up you'll have even more room because you wont have as much crap under the hood, not to mention that mine is emmissions legal so I still have all that junk under my hood. As far as clearance issues with the hood, it all depends on what intake you use. I had to replace my hood with a 4 inch cowl because I'm running a Trick Flow intake that's bigger than life. furtunately for you, most carb intakes are a lot lower than their fuel injected brothers. The only parts that you might need to buy (and that depends on how complete the 351 you're buying is.) The dampener, the two engines have different balance. the distributor, and for sure the headders, the exhaust ports sit higher so your headders have to be a little longer so it alligns with your cat back system. They're called swap headders, I got mine from Ford Racing.
As far as the cleveland heads go, they do produce more power but they don't fit on a windsor without modifications. if at all. the mods would probably cost you more than alum.heads. so if money is an issue, get the stock heads worked over.

Which intake do you have? I have teh TFS-R and it clears my 2.5" cobra r svo hood. I think my scoop saved me though. I think a regular cobra rr hood would hit the intake. Do you have the Box intake? I heard those are even taller.

Dont forget about a oil pan. Also, lifters. Unless its a roller block(94+ only) you will need the $450 crane conversion lifters with the link bars and run whatever 5.0 compatible cam you want OR you can run a reduced circle cam and regular 5.0 lifters...but people do not recommend that and your cam choice is greatly reduced when u go that route.

Plan on extending the fuel lines. Cutting the battery tray(if u keep it). Flywheel if it doesnt have one. I got my Fidanza aluminum flywheel off ebay and i LOVE it.

Plenty of guys have done this swap so all the info you could possibly need is out there. Just search or post up a question.

Oh yea, do u plan on keeping it fuel injected or carb? In my opinion, since u already have the fuel injection, it would be much easier to keep it that way, rather than going through and switching it to a carb setup.

 

[SeriousSN95]

Thanks for all the useful opinions but i plan on doing basically what jorge.pena said by getting the rods balanced and shot peened. The clearence issue is no problem because i already have a 3.5 cobra double R on my car now. Im going to carb because its less stuff to deal with and when it comes time to tune, its going to be a WHOLe lot easier, but thanks to all the post's im really using this info. to my advantage. Also, thanks to everyone who treats me like a grown person, ive been in other 5.0 forums and alot of people talk to me like im dumb just because im 18. When alot of the guys i have talked to didnt have any clue what they were talking about! So thanks everyone and just throw as many suggestions as much as possible up too. And as far as the 100 efi motor, sorry its already sold to a buddy of mine for a 347 build. If any one has any 351W parts they would like to get off the racks please pm me or send me a message or email. [email protected]

 

[nmcgrawj]

Thanks for all the useful opinions but i plan on doing basically what jorge.pena said by getting the rods balanced and shot peened. The clearence issue is no problem because i already have a 3.5 cobra double R on my car now. Im going to carb because its less stuff to deal with and when it comes time to tune, its going to be a WHOLe lot easier, but thanks to all the post's im really using this info. to my advantage. Also, thanks to everyone who treats me like a grown person, ive been in other 5.0 forums and alot of people talk to me like im dumb just because im 18. When alot of the guys i have talked to didnt have any clue what they were talking about! So thanks everyone and just throw as many suggestions as much as possible up too. And as far as the 100 efi motor, sorry its already sold to a buddy of mine for a 347 build. If any one has any 351W parts they would like to get off the racks please pm me or send me a message or email. [email protected]

I would think twice about going to carb, but thats just me. There is a big debate over on the corral between carbs vs EFI. Seems like people are either Pro-Carb or Pro-Efi. Since your EFI will bolt right up to it, i see no reason to switch. I could see if you were starting from scratch but you arent.

You think a carb is easy to tune? My PMS consists of hitting buttons to tune the car. No lap top. No confusing symbols or names. No popping the hood. No wrenches. No screw drivers. Ya dont even have to turn the car off. Come to a light, make a change, drive and see if its better. Thats what i call easy. But like i said, some guys love carbs and some love efi.

I've got a 5qt 351w swap man i dont need anymore. Email:[email protected]