I pulled the codes [lots of 'em] but now what?

[northy_polk]

*UPDATED* I pulled the codes but now what?

*UPDATED*: I cleared all the codes below and narrowed them down to 212 and 543! Hopefully this helps make a better diagnosis. Thanks in advance!

JD

[I ran a search here on the forum and didn't find the exact information I was seaking, so I decided to post this]

So I finally pulled the codes on my 94 GT. Now the question is, what exactly do I do with them! I used the type of reader that uses a flashing light to indicate the codes. These are from the key on, key off test. Here they are:

r =running, m=memory and o=key on/off test.

172 R,M: Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was lean - Single,
Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control

173 R, M: Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was rich - Single, Right
or Rear HO2S - Fuel control


176 M: Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was lean Left or Front
HO2S - Fuel control

177 M: Oxygen sensor not switching - system was rich Left or Front HO2S
- Fuel control

212 M: Ignition TACH signal was erratic (module/wiring) or SPOUT circuit
fault - Ignition Systems

332 R, M: EGR did not open/respond during test or if memory code, did not
open intermittantly - EVR or PFE

543 O: Fuel pump monitor circuit shows no power - Power / Fuel Pump
Circuits

552 O: AIRB solenoid/circuit failure - Solenoids

553 O: AIRD solenoid/circuit failure - Solenoids

558 O: EGR vacuum regulator solenoid/circuit failure - EVR or PFE or
Solenoids


So there they are. According to my research here on the forum, the 212 may indicate I need a new distributor [that's 'dizzy' right?!] or PIP [what's this] or CCRM [ditto?]. But do I need to 'clear' these codes from the memory just in case they are leftover from previous problems? And then pull them again to see if they return after I turn the car on/drive it/???

Other important notes:
1) I took off the thermactor pipes and all the smog stuff that runs parallel to the header on the passenger side of the engine compartment, and then to the EGR tube and the x-pipe. I removed all the small diameter vacuum lines, but did not remove all of the solenoids although they are unplugged.
2) I unplugged the EGR and used one of those 'MIL' eliminators that plugs into it and makes the car thing the EGR is still there. I have not removed the actual EGR sensor from the intake.
3) I don't know if the O2 sensors are original to the car [160k miles].

The car currently backfires, hesitates, and the idle surges. I am trying desperately to eliminate these problems as I plan to run the car at Virginia International Raceway in two weeks [it's a road course if you've never heard of it]. If some or all of these codes will lead to the problems being fixed that would be great. I've already done many of the things to 'fix' idle surge/hesitation/etc like cleaning the IAC, MAF, setting the TPS, replacing plugs/wires/distributor cap, new coil and TPM [is that what that module's called?], and probably other stuff I've forgotten.

So...all that said if you have advice I'd appreciate it mucho grande!

Thanks in advance,

Jon

 

[HISSIN50]

So there they are. According to my research here on the forum, the 212 may indicate I need a new distributor [that's 'dizzy' right?!] or PIP [what's this] or CCRM [ditto?]. But do I need to 'clear' these codes from the memory just in case they are leftover from previous problems? And then pull them again to see if they return after I turn the car on/drive it/???

Dizzy does = distributor. The PIP (or ignition stator) is the sensor inside the distributor that relates engine position to the computer (like a crank trigger on newer cars). When guys lose a PIP, they often get reman'd dizzies.

The CCRM should not have anything to do with code 212. It's the black box with lots of wires mounted to the overflow bottle bracket.

Your idea is good. Clear the codes and drive the car and see how it drives and what codes are regenerated.

For all intents and purposes, you disabled the EGR and A.I.R. systems. I would not sweat those codes. Your having an EGR code might be saving you from EGR-induced detonation anyhow.

How is the vacuum signal? It should be near 20" hg at idle. A vac leak can cause all the O2's to read lean if the leak is greater than the adaptive control's ability to compensate.

The car currently backfires, hesitates, and the idle surges. I am trying desperately to eliminate these problems as I plan to run the car at Virginia International Raceway in two weeks [it's a road course if you've never heard of it]. If some or all of these codes will lead to the problems being fixed that would be great. I've already done many of the things to 'fix' idle surge/hesitation/etc like cleaning the IAC, MAF, setting the TPS, replacing plugs/wires/distributor cap, new coil and TPM [is that what that module's called?], and probably other stuff I've forgotten.

Have you checked your timing? Occasionally the hold-down comes loose and the timing walks. If it retarded enough, it could lead to such issues.

 

[northy_polk]

Dizzy does = distributor. The PIP (or ignition stator) is the sensor inside the distributor that relates engine position to the computer (like a crank trigger on newer cars). When guys lose a PIP, they often get reman'd dizzies.

Got it. Thanks!

The CCRM should not have anything to do with code 212. It's the black box with lots of wires mounted to the overflow bottle bracket.

Ten4. I figured that out with some more research. I meant 543 for the CCRM related code. The fuel pump relay is in the ccrm [yes?!], so that's why I mentioned it. I guess testing the fuel relay part [as per your write up at mustang-tech.org] of it is required unless I just want to throw $160 at a new CCRM. God this $3,000 car has cost me well over $6,000 so far and it STILL runs like *****. WTF?

Your idea is good. Clear the codes and drive the car and see how it drives and what codes are regenerated.

Alrighty then I'll try that.

For all intents and purposes, you disabled the EGR and A.I.R. systems. I would not sweat those codes. Your having an EGR code might be saving you from EGR-induced detonation anyhow.

Come again? I don't understand? It seems these are contradictory statements...but I think I just don't smell what yer steppin in, so to speak.

How is the vacuum signal? It should be near 20" hg at idle. A vac leak can cause all the O2's to read lean if the leak is greater than the adaptive control's ability to compensate.

Dude, or dudette, as it were...I have NO idea. I'm a total newbie here and pretty much self-taught so far. How can air have a signal [unless it's brown and stinky lol?!]? Actually, why don't I just replace all the [remaining] vac lines? Won't this be cheap and worth it since most of the lines are cracked and degraded anyways? I'd rather not buy a new silicone 'kit' for $Oh.God...but aren't the hoses several different inner/outer diameters?

Have you checked your timing? Occasionally the hold-down comes loose and the timing walks. If it retarded enough, it could lead to such issues.

Yes, I'm retarded enough. I have no idea how to check that. I just wish I weren't in such a rush to get this car up to par, but I don't want to risk a break down at VIR!!! If I had the cash I'd just dump the car off at XXXXX Mustang Tuner Dudes and let them fix it, but I just can't afford it.

Thanks for all the input,

JD

 

[northy_polk]

*UPDATE*

Well I'm sort of excited to say that I cleared the 'old' codes and am now down to just 2: 212 and 543. Not that I'm glad those codes are showing, but that so many have been cleared out!

So, based on these two codes and the above info, does this help somebody make a better 'diagnosis'? Certainly there must be some Mustang Sherpa out there!

Thanks again,

JD

 

[MysteryMachine]

ok correct me if I'm wrong here but if there was a problem with the fuel pump circut/wiring wouldn't the car not run or spudder as the pump kicks on and off?


and JT would that other code show up if the spout connecter was missing or is there another one for that

 

[HISSIN50]

You're getting somewhere. 212 and 543 share a commonality. The PIP. When you're driving, the PIP signal is what tells the puter the engine is on and it makes the pump keep working. If your PIP signal craps out, the pump shuts off for a split second, and the FP monitor can generate a loss-of-power code for the FP circuit.

If you remove your dizzy cap, look inside the bowl and see if the PIP is loose (wiggle stuff inside and see if anything moves). Also, if you have a magnet, run it around inside there and see if it picks up any metal. The PIP is inductant and when the dizzy bushing or PIP are failing, ferrous metal can find its way into the bowl. This is a tell.

Once done with that, spray electrical contact cleaner around the bowl and put the cap back on. The last part isnt mandatory but is a nice idea (I clean mine atleast once a year just to get the dust off since no one uses a dizzy boot).

Jinx, his code means the SPOUT was interrupted (as when the PIP burps) and the IDM picked it up. Removing the SPOUT connector is not supposed to generate this code, nor did it when I ran locked-timing for a summer. 543 (as a code itself) isnt related to the SPOUT circuit. The SPOUT signal is the modified one from the EEC to the TFI. Those were sharp ideas though.

Jon, my mistake regarding the CCRM and 543. You are right-on. If the PIP and 543 are not related, you very well could be right. I would not replace the CCRM just yet probably (especially if the car isnt stalling on you for no reason). I really have the feeling the PIP is behind this, especially since you regenerated both codes so quick.

If the EGR is blocked off or removed and no code is ever generated, the car thinks the EGR is still there. During EGR conditions, the spark advance is higher and fuel injector PW is lower than it would be without EGR (because EGR is inert - it dilutes the mixture, making it less volatile or prone to detonation). If you generate an EGR code, the EEC is supposed to shut the EGR off, helping someone not experience detonation from the removal. That was what I was getting at before. A tune is the only sure-fire way to remedy the situation (or reinstalling the EGR).

You can replace all the vac lines - I've done a lot of them myself just because they vulcanized. Cheap rubber line works fine IMHO. However, you can have a leak that isnt from a vac line. For instance, the PCV grommet can cause a leak, the plenum to lower intake gasket can cause a leak, etc. That's why seeing the vacuum signal is kind of a quick, nice way to know what's up. A cheap vac gauge (or your Mitivac) is more than sufficient. Just connect it to a vac line or port from the vacuum tree (I rig up a little tee connection) and you know. It takes 1 minute to check and is quite telling.

You gotta have a timing light. Even a cheap one works fine (the one I use most often cost me 22 bucks). It's a needed tool for anyone so I'd grab one (or parts stores loan them out as I recall) so you can double check your timing. If you think it's off, be sure the harmonic balancer hasnt delaminated its outer ring because that skews the readings.

I gots to run but should be back on later tonight.

I'm a dude BTW. If I had boobies, I wouldnt be on a forum ......... Nevermind. LOL.

 

[MysteryMachine]

yes you would JT you would be on here trying to pick up one of us guys with a sweet ass car.


And thanks for the explanation I have no idea how that all works I've never had a problem with it

 

[northy_polk]

Thanks a gagillion...We'll see what happens today when I try to address these issues.

JD

btw: For serious now, did you know that JK Rowling revealed that Dumbledore 'putts from the rough'? I'm just saying cause you like booobies and your sig pic is of him and.....well you get the idea.

 

[HISSIN50]

btw: For serious now, did you know that JK Rowling revealed that Dumbledore 'putts from the rough'? I'm just saying cause you like booobies and your sig pic is of him and.....well you get the idea.

That's something I pondered when that story came out - no one gave me any crap about it at the time.

I've had the avatar for sometime now - as a surprise it was bestowed upon me by a former moderator on here. I have no idea how to make an animated GIF but was thankful and appreciative for his time. He [exaggeratingly] said the wizardly character was fitting.

 

[northy_polk]

That's something I pondered when that story came out - no one gave me any crap about it at the time.

I've had the avatar for sometime now - as a surprise it was bestowed upon me by a former moderator on here. I have no idea how to make an animated GIF but was thankful and appreciative for his time. He [exaggeratingly] said the wizardly character was fitting.

HISSIN50: So how much do I owe you?! The backfiring is no longer with us!!!

Here's the story...

So I ordered a new stator/pickup/WTF other names it has online for pickup at the local BFE auto parts store. I picked it up, drove to my 'shop', took off the dist cap, and said to myself 'well you've done it again you've got the wrong part!'. So I tested the CCRM [just to make sure that wasn't the problem] pins 18 and 24 for correct 'ohmage' and it was 80 like it should be. So off to a different parts store on the chase for the right part...at least now I had it in hand and could say 'one of these please'. Well....as it turns out, the part listed for the 1994 GT 5.0 is NOT the right part!!!! The part that worked was for a COBRA. ???!!! WTF? So, I put that on, after...er...um...forcefully pulling off the plate that spins and holds all the other 'stuff' to it [more on that later] and after the car not starting and some 'adjustments' it started and although it idles a little rough, NO BACKFIRING!

So, as for that part that I forced off of there...I was supposed to do this differently but my Haynes manual had no pictures or descriptions so I was on my own. I used a deep socket and a hammer to get the metal plate that holds the armature back on there, but had to do this 4 times before the car would start and not die because I did not mark where it was supposed to be!!!! DAMMIT. It's still not exactly right, and I may just get a new dizzy, but at least the car runs 75% better and does not back fire, right!? How do I line up all those parts to get the car to fire properly now that I've fuxored it all up?

Thanks y'all!

JD



Well Dumbledore's a bada55 no matter how you look at it, so...

 

[HISSIN50]

The Cobra PIP should have been the same, but I have no doubt the computer has a bad cross reference and they gave you something else. A T-bird PIP works and is often more correct in the computer.

You took it apart by removing the gear and sliding the shaft up through the dizzy bowl, right? The parts on top are not meant to come apart. There should have been no issues with indexing things so the car would run in perfect time (if you dont index the parts upon assembly, they dont go back together. The gear is about the only thing that needs indexing). I think something might have gone a little wonky here..................

 

[northy_polk]

Wonky indeed. I didn't slide the shaft through the bowl. I should have just pulled that 'shaft' out of there to do the work. DAMMIT. Oh well, can i get a new 'shaft' [lol, i keep thinking of beevis and butthead when I say that] or do I need a whole new dizzy?

 

[HISSIN50]

You'd be better off getting a reman'd (parts store) or new (online speed shop) dizzy. Or just grabbing a used core from the Junkyard (or classifieds) and using it in its entirety [or the shaft atleast]. This latter-most route is probably as cheap as anything, especially since you already have a new PIP.

 

[northy_polk]

Thanks again. You're advice has been worth at least $247.28! ;-)