I Was Owned By Ls1

crazykid2056 said:

I was talking bolt-On's. Of course if you work below Valve Covers, a GT will be in stock LS1 territory.

The point is, a GT needs major mod's to compete with the old LS1's. I know, because I still get me Azz beat by LS1's, especially after 2nd gear.

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Define major mods, I know a little about being able to run with stock LS1s, and can say it doesnt take all that much. The right combo, and some good driving will do it. Now a modded LS1 is another story, but if were on the subject of stock, you dont NEED major mods...

I dont know about that jedi thing, I dont watch star wars, not sure if its an insult or a compliment, either way, oh well...

As to the guy comparing the MBenz and his car, if that makes you sleep better than keep saying that. But his $60K car is Much more of a car than your Mustang will ever be. There is more to a price tag than a drag race, and thats what he paid for!

25thmustang said:

Define major mods, I know a little about being able to run with stock LS1s, and can say it doesnt take all that much. The right combo, and some good driving will do it. Now a modded LS1 is another story, but if were on the subject of stock, you dont NEED major mods...

I dont know about that jedi thing, I dont watch star wars, not sure if its an insult or a compliment, either way, oh well...

As to the guy comparing the MBenz and his car, if that makes you sleep better than keep saying that. But his $60K car is Much more of a car than your Mustang will ever be. There is more to a price tag than a drag race, and thats what he paid for!

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Don't take this as a personal attack or anything...but for you to say that LS1's are easy to keep up with is just mind boggling for me...Those cars dyno 310-320RWHP...you need at least that much to hang with one...assuming the Mustang is full weight and not some crazy 4.56 gears...but like 3.73's...To get 300RWHP is not an easy thing either...YOU NEED H/C/I...Not talking about any boost applications either...

Highbredcloud said:

Don't take this as a personal attack or anything...but for you to say that LS1's are easy to keep up with is just mind boggling for me...Those cars dyno 310-320RWHP...you need at least that much to hang with one...assuming the Mustang is full weight and not some crazy 4.56 gears...but like 3.73's...To get 300RWHP is not an easy thing either...YOU NEED H/C/I...Not talking about any boost applications either...

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A fox w/ 280rwhp and gears will beat a stock ls1, much lighter cars (fox body's that is)

A good question would be how much you would have to spend to make a Fox keep up or just beat a LS1 F-body? Those cars are known for their bang-for-the-buck value, so if you have to spend more money then a stock LS1 just to make a Fox run with one, you might as well join them and get a LS1.

Also note the F-body (most notably the Camaro) has been our arch-rivals for over 30 years, so it'd be nice to see Mustangs that can take a LS1 on.

super302 said:

A fox w/ 280rwhp and gears will beat a stock ls1, much lighter cars (fox body's that is)

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That would be the lowest RWHP you would need...BUT to achieve 280RWHP...you still have to do H/C/I...and a good driver...

Could you build a street driven mustang that would hang with a twin turbo charged Dodge Viper? I wonder what you would have too do. I saw a video where a twin turbo charged viper spanked a turbo hayabusa, and those things are fast as hell. This is just to support that whole "there will always be someone faster"

I would take the $8,000 and put it down on a 2003 or 04 cobra. I would then go and hunt down Z06's.

Move to TALK

LS1's are God's. I guess that's what everyone is trying to say...

im glad to see that you guys are seriously discussing how to beat an ls1 rather than pointing their weaknesses and pulling the normal crap. theyre fast cars, but beatable. I hope one day my bro will botch a shift or two and ill beat him.

Highbredcloud said:

Don't take this as a personal attack or anything...but for you to say that LS1's are easy to keep up with is just mind boggling for me...Those cars dyno 310-320RWHP...you need at least that much to hang with one...assuming the Mustang is full weight and not some crazy 4.56 gears...but like 3.73's...To get 300RWHP is not an easy thing either...YOU NEED H/C/I...Not talking about any boost applications either...

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From someone with both, I can tell you that you don't need H/C/I to keep up with a stock LS1. My 93 GT (sig pic) has all the usuall bolt ons minus heads & cam. My C5 is stock with exhaust (other sig pic). My vette can not keep up with the four-eyed freak, period. It's a fact and their ain't much done to the stang.

super302 said:

A fox w/ 280rwhp and gears will beat a stock ls1, much lighter cars (fox body's that is)

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Fox hatches weigh around 3200 lbs. F-bodies are around 3100 lbs. C5's are around 3000 lbs. "Much lighter".... if you remover the entire interior maybe.

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WLDHRSE said:

From someone with both, I can tell you that you don't need H/C/I to keep up with a stock LS1. My 93 GT (sig pic) has all the usuall bolt ons minus heads & cam. My C5 is stock with exhaust (other sig pic). My vette can not keep up with the four-eyed freak, period. It's a fact and their ain't much done to the stang.


Fox hatches weigh around 3200 lbs. F-bodies are around 3100 lbs. C5's are around 3000 lbs. "Much lighter".... if you remover the entire interior maybe.

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what? and how exactly do you plan on keeping up with an LS1 if you don't do a H/C/I swap...? no boost either...I would like to know...I guess I'm doing somthing wrong...or LS1's around here are modded...lol

Highbredcloud said:

what? and how exactly do you plan on keeping up with an LS1 if you don't do a H/C/I swap...? no boost either...I would like to know...I guess I'm doing somthing wrong...or LS1's around here are modded...lol

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WLDHRSE said:

From someone with both, I can tell you that you don't need H/C/I to keep up with a stock LS1. My 93 GT (sig pic) has all the usuall bolt ons minus heads & cam. My C5 is stock with exhaust (other sig pic). My vette can not keep up with the four-eyed freak, period. It's a fact and their ain't much done to the stang.

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Mods please?

The thing your forgetting is that E.T.'s don't mean your faster than that car. The mph you trap shows the real potential. There are several running HIGH 12's in their 5.0L's but trapping at 102mph or so (suspension/traction/bolt-ons/steep gear)...and while most ls1's run 108-109mph traps with the 6spd in the low 13's. The ls1 is FASTER.

WLDHRSE said:

Fox hatches weigh around 3200 lbs. F-bodies are around 3100 lbs. C5's are around 3000 lbs. "Much lighter".... if you remover the entire interior maybe.

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Your fox body weight is pretty accurate but it really depends on what trim level you have.

F-bodies (ls1/lt1's) are around 3400lb actually...the vette is 3100lbs or so.

Why would you remove the whole interior in a vette? or anything for that matter? I think your trying to race two different cars. One stripped and one that cruises nicely with 28mpg (the vette)...

Oh and it takes a nice h/c/i setup to truley take the ls1 on the highway.

Oh and about people saying almost every ls1 is modded...I don't believe that to be true. Not every ls1 owner is a young person wanting to go faster...they just wanted a camaro/transam/etc...think of the different variety of people that have them...

Also the ls1-lt1's don't have "corvette engines"...they have an ls1 and the lt1...which is the motor's the vette happens to have in it as well. The corvette name gives it nothing...

You're off of your rocker WLDHRSE. My 1992 LX hatchback mustang weighed 3150 lbs with me in it. I had only deleted the A/C, and removed the spare tire crap. That's it...

The ZO6 is a lighted version of the C5 and its curb weight is 3150lbs. F-bodies weigh about 3300 lbs for a stripper, and get heavier with more options.

Now, people outrunning LS1s with stock heads are getting a serious holeshot on them and only running them through the 1/4. Getting a mustang into the 12s will beat almost all the stock F-bodies out there, and that only takes bolt-ons and a hard launch. But, a bolt-on stang is not going to stay in front of the LS1s for much longer than the end of the 1/4.

Here's my 2 cents: I raced LS1s with my '92 when it had a dynoed 269.9 rwhp and 310 rwtq. I raced a corvette convertible, and a couple of F-bodies. I outran the F-bodies only because we were both on street tires and I outlaunched them. We'd stay pretty even going all the way down the track. I raced a convertible vette on a highway from a roll with a friend in the car. He pulled on me from start to finish. I don't remember how long the race was, but it was long enough to know that the vette had my stang beat. The guy was waving, too which leads me to believe it was not only a vert, but an auto.

Later, I changed the setup and dynoed 311rwhp/330rwtq, and probably 5 or so more due to a little tinkering with the upper intake. Man, with this setup, I raced more LS1s than I could count and destroyed all of them. They weren't really a race at this point. The closest runs were with a friend that had a stripper LS1 that dynoed 313rwhp bone stock. I ran him from a highway roll and we're both pretty good drivers. Both cars had manuals. I always pulled on this car. I'd get 2-3 cars up and shut down from a 55-120 roll. Another race of note is a bolt-on vette (computer chip, cat-back, and I'm not sure what else anymore). He raced from about 70 up to around 160. We raced 5-6 times, and I always pulled him until about 140 when he start coming back up and pass me. I'd stay with him, but only by drafting (actually passed him back around 160 by slingshotting once).

Sorry for writing a novel,

Chris

(5 spd gt)

I sympathize, but here's the good news: GM cars are **** compared to Fords. I have had a '68 289 Mustang, 2 5.0 Mustangs, a 5.0 Tbird, a 5.0 Lincoln LSC and a 351 ex-chp Crown Vic, as well as 2 Vettes and an LT1 Impala SS clone, so I talk from experience, and the GM's just blew when it came to engineering, tuning, repairs, parts and maintenance. My buddy's Tahoe has been through 2 engines, 2 trans's and 2 transfer cases. My wife can tell which car I'm working on from the sound of my voice, since my current SS clone is accompanied by "God-Damned F-in Chevy piece of ****..." Modern Fords by contrast, particularly the 5.0's, are built like brick ****houses, and can be worked on with relative ease, low cost, and fairly guaranteed results. I am confident that you can build an LS1 eater for less than he paid for a stock LS1, and he will be in the boneyard long before you. You will curse a lot less too.

what i'd do is do a turbo setup on your stock, or near stock long block. you'll need about 400rwhp to beat "most" ls1s, that can be achieved with a turbocharged stock 5.0L.... now if you need anything more than 450-500rwhp then i'd start looking into a 351 based build up or an aftermarket block.
I my self am doing a junk yard twin turbo build up thats going into a fresh 0 mile rebuilt '89 motor with stock everythihng, just a basic rebuild with moly rings. something like that should be very capable of making 400rwhp with about 12psi or so with everything from throttle body to oil pan stock.

all you guys telling this guy to save his money need to stop, since when did this site get all about financial stability?!?! yeah, that nitrous kit or any mod you have ever done was a real good investment huh? we dont mod our cars to make money so if this guy likes to spend a million dollars on his stang then dont hassle him,

to beat a ls1 i say bolt ons and a bottle in the trunk! NA is too hard and too much money, they have more displacement, stronger transmissions=powershifting, much more modern, yada....