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Iac Duty Cycle @ 100% Beyond Start And Idle.

  • Thread starter Thread starter chuzie
  • Start date Start date Feb 3, 2015
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chuzie

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#1
  • Feb 3, 2015
  • #1
Been troubleshooting my system lately for intermittent stalling from park to drive, an inability to dial idle in at the 650-725 range (more like 900 now) , and the large initial surge I get when going from P to D or R. Ran through that awesome thread for surging idle and came up empty handed.

I tested the duty cycle of my IAC and, for some reason, it is staying at 100% instead of 30-40%. Basically, it is always on regardless of how much I turn the TB adjustment screw. Measuring 7.5-8.5v (Wt/LtBl) warm idle and 3.5v +/- with RPM around 2-3k. I realize it is supposed to be 100% for start, but not beyond unless necessary.

I am thinking maybe there is an issue with the A9P failing to properly regulate the IAC.

No KOER, KOEO or CM codes.

Was going to look at my clutch control solenoid for the gear shift surge but that still doesn't explain the duty cycle.

Thoughts?

351W
A9P
4R70W
 

jrichker

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See http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/698148-help-me-create-surging-idle-checklist.html#post6855020 for the best way to set the mechanical base idle and cleaning procedure for the IAC/IAB.

You guys with idle/stall problems could save a lot of time chasing your tails if you would go through the Surging Idle Checklist. Over 50 different people contributed information to it. The first two posts have all the fixes, and steps through the how to find and fix your idle problems without spending a lot of time and money. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions. You can post questions to that sticky and have your name and idle problem recognized. The guys with original problems and fixes get their posts added to the main fix.

It's free, I don't get anything for the use of it except knowing I helped a fellow Mustang enthusiast with his car. At last check, it had more than 159,000 hits, which indicates it does help fix idle problems quickly and inexpensively.


Go back and read the first page and the first two post on that page. All the tests and fixes are there. Once you have a specific question about one or more of the tests or fixes, make another post with your results. I will try to help you resolve your problems.
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
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#3
  • Feb 4, 2015
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Unplug the IAC, engine will most likely stall. Screw the idle stop screw in to open the TB blade up and open it up far enough that the engine will start and run. With the IAC unplugged, lower the throttle stop screw down to below 725RPM to set your base idle.

Then, unplug the battery to reset the computer.

Hook the battery up, plug the IAC in and start the car. Let it relearn idle for 2 mins and then turn on all the accessories to increase load.

Check your codes and verify that you do not have a TPS code from adjusting the idle. Voltage at idle should be anywhere from 0.6V to 1.1V. You do not need to dial in a 0.99V setting at idle. That is a myth.
 
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chuzie

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#4
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JR, I ran that checklist for the second time and came up with nothing. The only value even remotely out of place was my MAF, at idle. Measured (FLUKE btw) 1.00-1.05v between pins C+D. This is an A1A MAF and matched housing, not the stock AA MAF and housing.

5L5, thanks. Reset idle. 650-700 with no spout no IAC and 0.93 TPS. 800+/-25 with spout, IAC and 0.93 TPS. I will drive it around and see if I can duplicate the issue. I have done this previously so maybe my idle screw is backing out. Time will tell.
 

MFE92

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#5
  • Feb 4, 2015
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The computer also uses timing advance to control idle. Where's your timing set, and is the SPOUT connector installed?
 
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chuzie

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10* btc and spout installed.
 

jrichker

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chuzie said:
10* btc and spout installed.
Click to expand...
As MFE92 has said, the SPOUT needs to be out when the base ide is set. Changing the spark advance, which the computer does, changes the idle speed.

Just for reference, here is the procedure...

OK, now you have gone through the list and eliminated most of the possible problems. Now your mechanical and electronic problems are fixed, you can set the base idle speed.

Setting the base idle speed:
First of all, the idle needs to be adjusted to where the speed is at or below 600 RPM with the IAC disconnected. If you have a wild cam, you may have to raise this figure 100-150 RPM or so. Then the electrical signal through the IAC can vary the airflow through it under computer control. Remember that the IAC can only add air to increase the base idle speed set by the mechanical adjustment. The 600 RPM base idle speed is what you have after the mechanical adjustment. The IAC increases that speed by supplying more air under computer control to raise the RPM’s to 650-725 RPM’s. This figure will increase if you have a wild cam, and may end up between 800-950 RPM

Remember that changing the mechanical idle speed adjustment changes the TPS setting too.

This isn't the method Ford uses, but it does work. Do not attempt to set the idle speed until you have fixed all the codes and are sure that there are no vacuum leaks.

Warm the engine up to operating temperature, place the transmission in neutral, and set the parking brake. Turn off lights, A/C, all unnecessary electrical loads. Disconnect the IAC electrical connector. Remove the SPOUT plug. This will lock the ignition timing so that the computer won't change the spark advance, which changes the idle speed. Note the engine RPM: use the mechanical adjustment screw under the throttle body to raise or lower the RPM until you get the 600 RPM mark +/- 25 RPM. A wild cam may make it necessary to increase the 600 RPM figure to 700 RPM or possibly a little more to get a stable idle speed.
Changing the mechanical adjustment changes the TPS, so you will need to set it.

When you are satisfied with the results, turn off the engine, and re-install the SPOUT and reconnect the IAC. The engine should idle with the range of 650-750 RPM without the A/C on or extra electrical loads. A wild cam may make this figure somewhat higher.

An engine that whose idle speed cannot be set at 600 RPM with the IAC disconnected has mechanical problems. Vacuum leaks are the #1 suspect in this case. A vacuum gauge will help pinpoint both vacuum leaks and improperly adjusted valves. A sticking valve or one adjusted too tight will cause low vacuum and a 5"-8" sweep every time the bad cylinder comes up on compression stroke. An extreme cam can make the 600 RPM set point difficult to set. Contact your cam supplier or manufacturer to get information on idle speed and quality [/INDENT]

Recommended procedure for cleaning the IAC/IAB:
Conventional cleaning methods like throttle body cleaner aren’t very effective. The best method is a soak type cleaner used for carburetors. If you are into fixing motorcycles, jet skis, snowmobiles or anything else with a small carburetor, you probably have used the one gallon soak cleaners like Gunk or Berryman. One of the two should be available at your local auto parts store for $22-$29. Take the solenoid off the body and set it aside: the carb cleaner will damages some types of plastic parts. Soak the metal body in the carb cleaner overnight. There is a basket to set the parts in while they are soaking. When you finish soaking overnight, twist the stem of the IAB/IAC that sticks out while the blocker valve is seated. This removes any leftover deposits from the blocker valve seat. Rinse the part off with water and blow it dry with compressed air. The IAC/IAB should seal up nicely now. Once it has dried, try blowing through the bottom hole and it should block the air flow. Reassemble and reinstall to check it out.

Gunk Dip type carb & parts soaker:
 
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chuzie

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#8
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #8
I did exactly that. Spout out when setting. Spout in when done.
 

Decipha

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Feb 4, 2015
#9
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #9
pretty much all has been said already but here's my details FYI

http://info.efidynotuning.com/idleair101.htm#baseidle

if your idling wiith 100% duty cycle with the set screw set correctly you'd probably be near 2500 rpm or so, be sure you are checking the duty cycle correctly
 

jrichker

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IAC doesn't work: look for +12 volts at the IAC red wire. Then check for continuity between the white/lt blue wire and pin 21 on the computer. The IAC connector contacts will sometimes corrode and make the IAC not work. The red wire on the IAC is always hot with the engine in run mode. The computer provides a ground for the current for the IAC. It switches the ground on and off, making a square wave with a varying duty cycle. A normal square wave would be on for 50% of the time and off for 50% of the time. When the idle speed is low, the duty cycle increases more than 50% to open the IAC more. When the engine speed is high, it decreases the duty cycle to less than 50% to close the IAC. An old-fashioned dwell meter can be used to check the change: I haven’t tried it personally, but it should work. In theory, it should read ½ scale of whatever range you set it on with a 50% duty cycle. An Oscilloscope is even better if you can find someone who has one and will help.

 

Mustang5L5

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#11
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I'm a little confused though.

If you set the idle with the IAC disconnected, and then reset the comp and plug it in...if it's 100% OPEN, wouldn't your idle be at 2000RPM or so?
 
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chuzie

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Maybe I am measuring the IACDC wrong. I'm not reading it though a tuner. I'm using my Fluke set to %. One lead at the IAC Wt/LtBl and other at battery ground. I know my Fluke works because I can tap the lead on the IAC and it will give me duty cycle.

IAC to pin 21 on computer have good continuity. If IAC didn't work my idle wouldn't change when it is unplugged.
 

jrichker

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You cannot accurately measure duty cycle using voltage readings. If your Fluke meter is capable of reading duty cycle, you need to use the two wires that are on the IAC. Using the battery ground bypasses the computer control part of the circuit that actually varies the duty cycle.

Here's why:
The computer does not supply any voltage for any actuator. Instead, it supplies a ground pulse. In the case of the IAC, the width of the pulse changes in accordance to the computer command to control the idle speed. The IAC cannot decrease idle speed below the base mechanical idle speed.

If you have a vacuum leak, you will not have much luck getting the idle speed set to the 600 RPM or so that it needs to have..A dirty or sticking IAC will also cause the idle to be higher than normal. In that case, see my post on IAC cleaning with a soak type parts cleaner.
 
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chuzie

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#14
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Measured duty cycle from both iac terminals and same result. OL = 100% or 0%. If it were zero, idle would be low so it must be 100%. However, as previously mentioned, if it were 100% the idle would be in the 2000s.

I'm stumped.

Btw- IAC is clean as a whistle. Each and every step in that guide has been accomplished 100% to the letter.
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
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So the main issue is stalling from Park to Drive correct?

Any other codes stored in the computer? Mainly a VSS code?
 
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chuzie

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Initial startup of day is fine. I drive 1mi, park, go in store for 10min and when I start up and go to R, she dies without pedal. Same with drive. Once I get going she is fine.

No codes at all. That is why I was starting to look at converter and solenoid.

My idle is seemingly happy right now. I went after IACDC initially as a testing measure.
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
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chuzie said:
Initial startup of day is fine. I drive 1mi, park, go in store for 10min and when I start up and go to R, she dies without pedal. Same with drive. Once I get going she is fine.

No codes at all. That is why I was starting to look at converter and solenoid.

My idle is seemingly happy right now. I went after IACDC initially as a testing measure.
Click to expand...

I would probably leave the IAC alone right now and focus on other areas.

So are you sure no additional codes? Both engine running and engine off? What about performing a cylinder balance test?

My car exhibited this same behavior way back when it was an AOD. Shifting from R to D would stall it out. I forget how i fixed it, but it wasn't in the trans. Was a sensor other than the IAC.
 
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chuzie

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My only KOEO or KOER codes are due to tab, tad, egr being removed. They were removed long before this issue surfaced.

Running the exhaustive checklist from JR pretty much leaves me with nothing other than computer as the culprit unless my TFI is pissed only when hot but I think it would be more persistent throughout the driving rather than just a load related stall.

Unfortunately, nothing in my Probst manual address stall upon initial load.
 

jrichker

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There is a bell going off in my head that says to check the NSS circuit. It should signal the computer to add more airflow via the IAC when the transmission goes from Park or Neutral to Drive or Reverse. If it doesn't, then you get the stall condition you are describing.

Use a test light and connect one lead to ground and the other lead to pin 30 on the computer. With the trans in Park or neutral, you should have the test lamp glow. With it in Drive or Reverse, you should see the light go out.

 
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chuzie

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Wow, they really wont let me spell p i s s e d? Wow. What a sad world we live in.
 
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