im getting fed up with efi

charlesw6954 · Dec 31, 2003

i am getting fed up with efi. i remember in my old 84 i had no problem with carb. i am thinking about switching to carb. i would have to replace the distributor gear, carb, intake manifold, and the holley blue pump. would i have to worry abouthe egr? egr only is used for street legal right? i need to know what else to replace because im going to make a check list and start buying stuff and check it off whatever i get.

88stangmangt · Dec 31, 2003

yes the egr is for emissions if the car has to be smog legal stay away from carb. because for example if your car was a 1990 gt then everyone knows it was F.I. and you cant just change it over to carb because it has to be as the same specs that the factor put it out as. you can make the block bigger but cant change to carb. they would atomatically fail you. plus F.I is so much more precise and accurate than carb anyway you make so much more power!!!!! i wanted to switch to carb about a year or so again untill my dad told me about the above and also they story of his police interceptor (fairlane) he built in the 60'/70's with a 429 cobra jet i believe 700+ hp when he was done and he told me if he would have had what we have now that car would have been unstopable and he would race anyone for slips!!!!! so if the old timers are giving up there carbs then ????? sorry for the long post just dont want you to loose a grand or so for emission chains

88stangmangt · Dec 31, 2003

sorry forgot N/A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

charlesw6954 · Dec 31, 2003

sorry i have an 89gt. also here in kansas there are no emmisions so yea emissions doesnt matter.

88stangmangt · Dec 31, 2003

ur lucky man if i were u for tyhe money your gonna spend on the carb conversion i would get some nice heads and big cam. but good luck anyway!!

yellow5.0cobra · Dec 31, 2003

Noone cares what anyone does here in NYC if the money is right.

$70 buys you an inspection sticker.

But you guys dont have to worry bout it.

Going carb'd wont be hard at all, and more bang for the buck.

Just rememeber your gonna have to do something about those fuel lines.

Pete

88stangmangt · Dec 31, 2003

you can buy inspection stickers anywhere if the money is right. emissions is what im working on.

ashford · Dec 31, 2003

after figuring out i would have to spend over $1500 on fuel injection to support how i built the engine i just threw it all aside and spent $400 on an intake and carb. i couldnt be happier i now have gas miliage and torque above 5000rpm

90mustangGT · Jan 1, 2004

F/I is better but is it worth the price? Daily driver, yes, Blown car, yes, N/A race/street-strip car, not really.

You'll need to replace the intake manifold, add a carb, change out fuel pump's and fuel pressure regulators.

tvmango · Jan 1, 2004

90mustangGT said:
F/I is better but is it worth the price? Daily driver, yes, Blown car, yes, N/A race/street-strip car, not really.

You'll need to replace the intake manifold, add a carb, change out fuel pump's and fuel pressure regulators.

exactly, carbs are great for racing, but if on the street they need attention often to keep running great, different temp (seasons) changed etc. You can carb intakes and such alot cheaper though,, I almost went to a carbed 393 stroker before I got all my stuff now, I kind of wish I did. I could have done it for ALOT less!!!!!!! Just the cost of my intake and throttle body would have covered the intake a demon carb,

85_SS_302_Coupe · Jan 1, 2004

EFI is just way too expensive, and way too complicated, way too computer controlled with all the sensors. I build computers so it's not the technology i have a problem with, it's the 2k for everything above the valve covers that bothers me. You could just about h/c/i a carbed car for the same price as an intake and supporting parts on an EFI car. I'd agree that EFI is better for daily drivers though, but dollar for dollar even if i drove my car everyday i'd rather sacrifice gas mileage for cheap power.

5.0 HOtrain · Jan 1, 2004

85_SS_302_Coupe said:
EFI is just way too expensive, You could just about h/c/i a carbed car for the same price as an intake and supporting parts on an EFI car..

That depends on what power level of carb setup you're building. I'm just about finished with a 600fwhp pump gas 418 for my 90lx. I went to a carb and spent $300 on a intake, carb is going to cost me $700, fuel system (tank to carb) is going to be around $700-$1000 (havent priced out all of it). It's not as cheap sometimes as people think. Granted still cheaper than if I were to stay EFI with the car and had to buy another intake,fuel system,injectors,throttle body,and with that sort of power a fuel management such as DFI,PMS, or the fast system. I think most poeple think for $500 you could do a complete swap, not the case though. Although I did sell the harness and computer out of the car for $300, so that helped out.

85_SS_302_Coupe · Jan 1, 2004

5.0 HOtrain said:
That depends on what power level of carb setup you're building. I'm just about finished with a 600fwhp pump gas 418 for my 90lx. I went to a carb and spent $300 on a intake, carb is going to cost me $700, fuel system (tank to carb) is going to be around $700-$1000 (havent priced out all of it). It's not as cheap sometimes as people think. Granted still cheaper than if I were to stay EFI with the car and had to buy another intake,fuel system,injectors,throttle body,and with that sort of power a fuel management such as DFI,PMS, or the fast system. I think most poeple think for $500 you could do a complete swap, not the case though. Although I did sell the harness and computer out of the car for $300, so that helped out.

You've def. got a point there, but you're also building a 351 stroker, and your intake is gonna cost a hell of a lot more than some of the better 302 intakes, also you're all the way up to a 418 so you've gotta have a huge carb if you're making huge power. You could in fact do a carb swap with run-o-the mill parts. I put an intake and carb on my old 351W for less than 500. Got a used 351W Performer RPM intake and ported it a bit with a dremel (not real successful) and an 850dp Holly from a friend for 300. You're not going to walk into your local parts shop and buy brand new stuff and walk away with change from a 500, so you've gotta be creative.

On the flipside though, i'm sure your setup would have stomped a mudhole in my 351W....

charlesw6954 · Jan 1, 2004

well i plan on getting a holley 650 db (350 or so), victor jr intake (220 or so), holley blue pump (120), and that gear for the distributor which i dont know how muh costs.

5.0 HOtrain · Jan 1, 2004

85_SS_302_Coupe said:
.

On the flipside though, i'm sure your setup would have stomped a mudhole in my 351W....

LOL C'mon now, just a little 418, "R" headed, 11.25:1 compression small block Went with a super victor for intake and getting a 1000cfm demon. Fuel system is more than I was planning on though, just the insert for the tank that has the an fittings was $118. Going with 10-an feed and 6-an return line, Then still need to do pump,filters,line,regulator. FWIW, distributor needed to clear supervictor intake was almost 3bills also.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=401955

Boss 351 · Jan 1, 2004

Why does everyone say carbs (CFI) sucks? My 78 Bronco with the 351M400 (2 bbl carb) would start better than my new ZX2. It would start with one crank, never more. Even with our cold as **** Canadian winters. My Firebird with choke removed would fire up within 3 cranks. I have had more problems with EFI than with CFI.

My 97 F150 would had a rough idle, had to have that fixed at the dealership. The ZX2 has "check engine" light on all the time because of a stupid O2 sensor.

I'm going carburated with my 351 Mustang because I prefer the look of a carb'd engine and I won't need to go and plug my car into an expensive computer to find any problems

5.0 HOtrain · Jan 1, 2004

Boss 351 said:
Why does everyone say carbs (CFI) sucks?

Not what I said, I'm going carb

Off topic: tvmango, where in NH you at?

84blkstang · Jan 1, 2004

I have a carb and intake for under 500 dollars. 250 for the Carb new and 160 for the intake new. I think that carb is easier to work on, easier to diagonse any problems. I agree with Boss 351 I like the look of carbed also. My dads bronco required the pulling of the intake to change the valve cover gaskets. mine took about 15-20 minutes. so another vote for carbed

85_SS_302_Coupe · Jan 2, 2004

5.0 HOtrain said:
LOL C'mon now, just a little 418, "R" headed, 11.25:1 compression small block Went with a super victor for intake and getting a 1000cfm demon. Fuel system is more than I was planning on though, just the insert for the tank that has the an fittings was $118. Going with 10-an feed and 6-an return line, Then still need to do pump,filters,line,regulator. FWIW, distributor needed to clear supervictor intake was almost 3bills also.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=401955

Yea no kidding, you've got 2 of the most expensive carb related parts you can buy, aside from custom parts! I'd love to have that intake (302 version) with a 750 Race Demon...those Demon carbs are works of art.

jrichker · Jan 2, 2004

It seems that most folks who complain about EFI complexity haven't taken the time to study up on it. The system will troubleshoot itself for the most part, and requires some though when it doesn't. Every major motorsport outside of stock car racing uses EFI in place of carbs.

For some help in understading EFI, here's a book that will get you started with how the Ford electronic engine control or "computer" works.

Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control 1988-1993 by James Probst :ISBN 0-8376-0301-3.

It's about $20 from Borders.com see http://www.amazon.com/ . Select boo...n my favorite by far, in part due to the EFI.

im getting fed up with efi

charlesw6954

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