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Inexpensive cooling upgrades (which rad. & e-fan?)?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kerpal
  • Start date Start date Oct 23, 2004
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Kerpal

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  • Oct 23, 2004
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My poor '90 5.0 overheated and died driving down the road the other day. Oddly the gauge showed it was running slightly warm but within acceptable range... then my engine started making rattling noises, I went slowly about a couple blocks to find a safe spot to pull over, and right as I did it just died. When I turned the key to the acessory position the temp needle shot up as far as possible, beyond the gauge's markings... then when I turned my parking lights off the gauge went back down. So something is obviously not right with my temp gauge, and it's hard to say how hot the car really got. Luckily I already have an Auto Meter mechanical gauge I was planning to use, I just wish I had already installed it...

I was pretty scared that something was damaged after the car got that hot, but I checked my dipstick and the oil looked OK, although pretty black, so I don't think I blew a head gasket. Upon inspection, my radiator is so rusted inside it's disgusting... it looks like someone ran mashed pumpkin through it. I just bought this car but I can't believe I even made it home before it sprung a leak... go figure the rad. was the one thing I forgot to check when I bought it. After letting her sit a couple hours and refilling the water I drove carefully a couple miles back home, shifting under 2800, and it seemed to run okay, but was still a bit warm when I got there.

So, what's the best replacement radiator under ~ $150? I don't have the budget for something fancy right now, and won't be doing any major mods (FI, heads, rebuild) any time soon anyway. It's going to be just an average daily driver with some bolt ons.

Secondly, I noticed my original clutch fan is starting to look pretty old and brittle. I'd like to go electric to get a few more HP, but again, money is an issue. I've heard the SN95 fan is a good choice, any comments on it? I don't live in a very hot area (Oregon), but I do need it to work on the rare summer days when I'm sitting in traffic with the a/c on. Do people use a '94-'95 5.0L fan or will anything '94+ work? Will I need to upgrade my alt. before the e-fan? And how do I set it up to be thermostatically controlled?

How long do water pumps usually last on 5.0's? My car has about 100k miles on it... I don't like the idea that it was pumping such gross water, but would that really hurt anything? I should be fine after flushing the syetem out well, no?

Maybe I should think about my heater core too, as bad as the radiator was... I'd hate to get stranded again from something that stupid. Are they a complete nightmare to replace?

I'm going to go with a new 180* balanced thermostat... should I run any watter wetter, or is that just being excessive? I think if anything I'd add it in the summer, but definately not right now as cold as it is.

Thanks in advance for any advice, and sorry for writing a novel... I just want to get everything properly sorted out so I can begin with the fun stuff...
 

dastang2

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Dec 11, 2003
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Oct 23, 2004
#2
  • Oct 23, 2004
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i bought this dual 1 inch core all aluminum radiator for 180 in summit. cheapest they had. http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=edepartment.asp&N=120+4294924500&x=18&y=12
 

5spd GT

"the 5.0 owns all"
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Aug 7, 2002
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Oct 23, 2004
#3
  • Oct 23, 2004
  • #3
I added a 31x19 Griffin Radiator and boy does it cool nicely when crusing on the highway...MUCH better than the factory radiator...I added it when I did the h/c/i swap (in sig) w/ a 180 degree thermostat...and I had the Black Magic Fan on before so I just put it back on...

The only problem I have is it heating up in stop and go traffic (it heats up FASTER in "idle" traffic with the h/c/i added than with the stock h/c/i...DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHY IT WOULD DO THAT...

The only difference was I added a thicker radiator and lower thermostat (180)...and it heats up faster at low cruising speeds...and I know power makes heat but I'm not making "power" at those low rpms...anybody?

I know my electric fan ain't up to the task but why is it worse when I upgraded the radiator and thermostat?
 
B

BottleRocket

Dammit, why am I out of washer fluid again???
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May 26, 2002
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Oct 23, 2004
#4
  • Oct 23, 2004
  • #4
inexpensive cooling upgrades? 50/50 combo or water wetter

but since your radiator is FUBAR, take a trip to auto zone and get their 3 core radiator. it was somewhere around $100 i think and its WAAAY better then stock. Its still copper, but it gets the job done, especially on a street car.
 

5spd GT

"the 5.0 owns all"
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Oct 23, 2004
#5
  • Oct 23, 2004
  • #5
The Griffin Radiator I mentioned above is $180 from Summit and is worlds better than the stock one...it is huge and basically drops right in...on the stock guage my temp (going by the bars) dropped 2 bars when there is what? 7 across the whole board of the guage...that is a nice improvement...

I just wish I would know why it is overheating quicker at 25mph or lower after I added the h/c/i? Timing? The "more power" shouldn't be a problem because I'm at a real low rpm at those speeds (usually 1500rpm)?
 
T

TheUser

Active Member
Jul 25, 2003
1,859
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36
Springfield, MO
Oct 23, 2004
#6
  • Oct 23, 2004
  • #6
5spd GT said:
The Griffin Radiator I mentioned above is $180 from Summit and is worlds better than the stock one...it is huge and basically drops right in...on the stock guage my temp (going by the bars) dropped 2 bars when there is what? 7 across the whole board of the guage...that is a nice improvement...

I just wish I would know why it is overheating quicker at 25mph or lower after I added the h/c/i? Timing? The "more power" shouldn't be a problem because I'm at a real low rpm at those speeds (usually 1500rpm)?
Click to expand...
To answer the original posters questions:

I've heard people use the 94-95 fans, but some also use the 3.8L Taurus electric fan. To have it controlled, get a DCC unit (www.dccontrol.com)

5Spd GT: I've always heard that getting hotter at lower speeds is the fan. I'm sure you put the shroud back on and there's no gaps. How is your fan set to kick on? Do you flip a switch or do you use a unit like the DCC one?
 

ponycar17

Founding Member
Nov 17, 2001
1,367
4
38
Upstate South Carolina
Oct 23, 2004
#7
  • Oct 23, 2004
  • #7
5spd GT said:
I added a 31x19 Griffin Radiator and boy does it cool nicely when crusing on the highway...MUCH better than the factory radiator...I added it when I did the h/c/i swap (in sig) w/ a 180 degree thermostat...and I had the Black Magic Fan on before so I just put it back on...

The only problem I have is it heating up in stop and go traffic (it heats up FASTER in "idle" traffic with the h/c/i added than with the stock h/c/i...DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHY IT WOULD DO THAT...

The only difference was I added a thicker radiator and lower thermostat (180)...and it heats up faster at low cruising speeds...and I know power makes heat but I'm not making "power" at those low rpms...anybody?

I know my electric fan ain't up to the task but why is it worse when I upgraded the radiator and thermostat?
Click to expand...

I have the same setup, and the same problem you describe. It actually doesn't get "that" hot in traffic. It does get up to 200 occasionally with a 180 T-stat. With my old Mr. Gasket 180 t-stat it got really hot in traffic at times. I put a Stant heavy duty thermostat in the car and haven't had any real issues lately. The Mr. Gasket would do strange stuff anyway. It would cool too well sometimes, and not cool well enough at other times...

What kind of t-stat do you have?...
 

5spd GT

"the 5.0 owns all"
Founding Member
Aug 7, 2002
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Oct 23, 2004
#8
  • Oct 23, 2004
  • #8
Kerpal - Sorry for taking part of your original thread away...but maybe this can help both of us...by killing two birds with one stone...

I have a Motorcraft 180* thermo...

My temperature will keep rising until I decide it is unsafe and I shut it off...but I can pull out on road and get some air flowing and that radiator cools it down quick...

I have a Black Magic Electric Fan (no shroud)...and I'm not for sure when it is "supposed" to come on...it will come on when it reaches a certain temperature sometimes...and comes on when I turn on the A/C...and I can turn it on manually...I guess I just need to keep it on at idle speeds even though it draws my ampage down and my lights will dim (And I have a 3g upgrade also and it still does that)...
 

ponycar17

Founding Member
Nov 17, 2001
1,367
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Upstate South Carolina
Oct 23, 2004
#9
  • Oct 23, 2004
  • #9
5spd GT said:
Kerpal - Sorry for taking part of your original thread away...but maybe this can help both of us...by killing two birds with one stone...

I have a Motorcraft 180* thermo...

My temperature will keep rising until I decide it is unsafe and I shut it off...but I can pull out on road and get some air flowing and that radiator cools it down quick...

I have a Black Magic Electric Fan (no shroud)...and I'm not for sure when it is "supposed" to come on...it will come on when it reaches a certain temperature sometimes...and comes on when I turn on the A/C...and I can turn it on manually...I guess I just need to keep it on at idle speeds even though it draws my ampage down and my lights will dim (And I have a 3g upgrade also and it still does that)...
Click to expand...


Does the black magic fan that you have come with an adjustable thermostat? And if so, where is the sensor located? I set the adjustable thermostat on mine to about 190 degrees, based on the reading on my stock guage. I put mine right at the return pipe through the fins on the top of the Griffin 31X19... I don't have any trouble with the temp rising past 200 now.
 

5spd GT

"the 5.0 owns all"
Founding Member
Aug 7, 2002
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Oct 23, 2004
#10
  • Oct 23, 2004
  • #10
ponycar17 said:
Does the black magic fan that you have come with an adjustable thermostat? And if so, where is the sensor located? I set the adjustable thermostat on mine to about 190 degrees, based on the reading on my stock guage. I put mine right at the return pipe through the fins on the top of the Griffin 31X19... I don't have any trouble with the temp rising past 200 now.
Click to expand...

Yeah it has the adjustable knob...so that thermostat that runs from off the fan needs to be located where in relation to the A/C condensor lines? (is that what your talking about (return pipe))...? I have the thermostat sticking in the fin (where it is dry)...but it has a plastic nipple over it...does that mean it has been bypassed and isn't used?...the previous owner just had it stuck in the radiator so I did the same on the Griffin...

(Assuming it isn't bypassed)...which way do I need to turn the knob to lower the fans "activation" point?

Thanks...
 

Michael Yount

Mustang Master
Apr 10, 2002
9,039
6
79
Charlotte, NC
Oct 23, 2004
#11
  • Oct 23, 2004
  • #11
If your new 90 has the stock 65A alternator, you'll likely need an alternator upgrade to drive the electric fan. If you use the www.dccontrol.com controller (the best around - mine works superbly) you can get by with a 95A alternator. If you use thermal switches/relays, you'll need a 130A.
 

ponycar17

Founding Member
Nov 17, 2001
1,367
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38
Upstate South Carolina
Oct 23, 2004
#12
  • Oct 23, 2004
  • #12
5spd GT said:
Yeah it has the adjustable knob...so that thermostat that runs from off the fan needs to be located where in relation to the A/C condensor lines? (is that what your talking about (return pipe))...? I have the thermostat sticking in the fin (where it is dry)...but it has a plastic nipple over it...does that mean it has been bypassed and isn't used?...the previous owner just had it stuck in the radiator so I did the same on the Griffin...

(Assuming it isn't bypassed)...which way do I need to turn the knob to lower the fans "activation" point?

Thanks...
Click to expand...

The sensor sounds like its fine. It should be sticking through the radiator fins near the upper radiator hose. The sensor has nothing to do with the AC condensor. That black rubber plug just helps it stay in place. Yours turns on when the AC compressor turns on because the AC relay wire is connected to the AC clutch power wire... It sounds like it's connected correctly.
 

5spd GT

"the 5.0 owns all"
Founding Member
Aug 7, 2002
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Oct 23, 2004
#13
  • Oct 23, 2004
  • #13
ponycar17 said:
The sensor sounds like its fine. It should be sticking through the radiator fins near the upper radiator hose. The sensor has nothing to do with the AC condensor. That black rubber plug just helps it stay in place. Yours turns on when the AC compressor turns on because the AC relay wire is connected to the AC clutch power wire... It sounds like it's connected correctly.
Click to expand...

Yeah the previous owner knew what he was doing...and I labeled each wire correctly and put them back on right I believe...we even traced where each wire went to their sources to make sure...

The fan runs fine but doesn't kick on at the same "time" (temp) as it did before...it rarely kicks on by itself...only when the a/c is on (kicks on and off for various moments of time)...and when I manually turn it on...

So that silver "sensor" with the thin bendable wire coming from it just needs to be stuck on the side of the radiator (it is right now by the upper radiator hose)...does it matter where it located at on that side...like up or down?

Thanks for the help...I guess I just need a bigger better fan...
 
N

Nottoofast50

Founding Member
Dec 9, 2000
386
0
0
Cali
Oct 24, 2004
#14
  • Oct 24, 2004
  • #14
pepboys 3 core radiator$99
taurus fan $10-30
 

5.0 HOtrain

Founding Member
May 20, 2001
2,247
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47
New Hampshire
Oct 24, 2004
#15
  • Oct 24, 2004
  • #15
I run a replacement 3 core copper, stock clutch fan, and edelbrock water pump on my 418, wich is half hardblocked. Cars runs to whatever thermostat I put in it. Do youreself a HUGE favor and put a mechanical gauge in it.
mike.
 

04sleeper

Founding Member
Jun 22, 2002
2,674
14
89
Dallas, TX
Oct 24, 2004
#16
  • Oct 24, 2004
  • #16
Nottoofast50 said:
pepboys 3 core radiator$99
taurus fan $10-30
Click to expand...
Pepboys has raised the price now to $149.00.
 
K

Kerpal

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Oct 25, 2004
#17
  • Oct 25, 2004
  • #17
dastang2 and 5spd GT, which particular model radiator are you guys using? It looks like Summit sells a lot of both Griffin and their own brand of radiators for around that price...

How do you secure the univeral radiators in a 5.0, I assume they come with some kind of brackets? Getting something universal never occured to me but looks like a good way to go...

I assume the 2 core aluminum radiators cool better than a 3 core copper one?

Any benefit to either the SN95 5.0 fan or the Tarus one, or does it matter? I'll definately look into that controller...

thanks for the help and no problem posting your question in my thread 5spd... the more people reading & giving us both advice the better...
 

Michael Yount

Mustang Master
Apr 10, 2002
9,039
6
79
Charlotte, NC
Oct 25, 2004
#18
  • Oct 25, 2004
  • #18
"Any benefit to either the SN95 5.0 fan or the Tarus one,"

Either should work just fine especially with the controller....
 

5spd GT

"the 5.0 owns all"
Founding Member
Aug 7, 2002
9,516
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99
Arkansas
Oct 25, 2004
#19
  • Oct 25, 2004
  • #19
Kerpal said:
dastang2 and 5spd GT, which particular model radiator are you guys using? It looks like Summit sells a lot of both Griffin and their own brand of radiators for around that price...

How do you secure the univeral radiators in a 5.0, I assume they come with some kind of brackets? Getting something universal never occured to me but looks like a good way to go...

I assume the 2 core aluminum radiators cool better than a 3 core copper one?

Any benefit to either the SN95 5.0 fan or the Tarus one, or does it matter? I'll definately look into that controller...

thanks for the help and no problem posting your question in my thread 5spd... the more people reading & giving us both advice the better...
Click to expand...

Here is the one I got...

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=esearch.asp&N=100&Ntk=PartSearch&Ntt=GRI-1-26272-X

Does anybody know if they sell a Sn95 fan new? I need a nice fan when it starts getting hotter for next year...but I'm short on funds now

Oh and on the "modifications" for the Griffin...alls you got to do is bend out the brackets it sits on and the ones that clamp over the top of it...

Then flip your stock radiator hose around and very lightly grease the insides of the openings to help the hose fit over the bigger inlets and outlets and clamp them down good...the bottom hose will likely need triming so it doesn't pinch because of the extra length that the radiator doesn't need...

I can't complain one bit about the Griffin
 
C

criticman

Member
Sep 7, 2003
723
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Rome, GA
Oct 25, 2004
#20
  • Oct 25, 2004
  • #20
BottleRocket said:
inexpensive cooling upgrades? 50/50 combo or water wetter
Click to expand...

Yeah - Redline products are nice...and I see that Royal Purple has a new one out as well. Redline, in addition to new hi-flow Summit water pump and a new OEM replacement radiator (Advance Auto Parts), and Hypertechc 180 deg thermo has dropped my cooling back down to a good normal range (based on what friend's garage kept, 6k mile 93 Cobra runs at).
 
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