Is Big Block power worth it?

MysteryMachine · Jun 24, 2006

Well title pretty much explains it. I have seen a few mentions of big blocks in our section but there is never any real discussion on the topic (atleast non that I have seen). Its always some remark about changing the plugs or something that has really nothing to do with the added power. So I decided to make a thread to se what ya'll think about big blocks in our cars. I personally think it would be cool. The pic 95strocker posted with the 460 95(?) was awsome. But theres questions to be answered about this topic so lets get them answered.

-Is it worth it?
-How would the power to weight pan out?
-What would be needed to do a bb swap?
-Cost of doing a swap and parts (most bb are carb what would the price be to change it to EFI)
-Is the rear able to handle the power in a stock form? If not what would one need?
-What type of front suspension would one need?

And what about a bb with a power adder

DISCUSS!!

illwood · Jun 25, 2006

MysteryMachine said:
-Is it worth it?

I would say it really isn't worth it, unless you're planning a drag-race only car. It's way too much weight to corner hard. I would think a bored and stroked 427W would be a much better combo for any form of street use.

MysteryMachine said:
-How would the power to weight pan out?

Lots of torque and without a 4-link, tubbed rear, with big slicks, I'm not sure how you could get much traction. This would probably be a good time to mention the 1971 Mach 1. You could get 2 V8's in that year with the Mach 1 package. A 351C and a 429 Big Block. The 351C was a faster car and it handled better because the 429 couldn't make up the power for the weight difference.

MysteryMachine said:
-What would be needed to do a bb swap?

A big block and a big prybar But seriously, time, patience, and some decent fabricating equipment. A good welder would pretty important IMO. I imagine you would have to do custom engine mounts and alot of fender work to squeeze it in. Maybe some custom headers. Although, the SN95 does fit a mod motor which is pretty freakin wide.

MysteryMachine said:
-Cost of doing a swap and parts (most bb are carb what would the price be to change it to EFI)

You would probably be able to run a truck EFI setup. I'm not sure what years the 460 was a Mass Air motor, as trucks lag behind cars in air/fuel delivery technology. I would think that most of the cost in this are in man hours as opposed to raw parts (unless you're talking about a super sick built big block).

MysteryMachine said:
-Is the rear able to handle the power in a stock form? If not what would one need?

If a built 8.8 won't handle it, you would probably need to step up to a 9" rear. Build up a 9" and it will take it.

MysteryMachine said:
-What type of front suspension would one need?

You'd need some pretty rugged front springs and struts I would think.

MysteryMachine said:
And what about a bb with a power adder

Sounds great if you never plan on cornering. Now we're looking at almost an IHRA Pro Mod in my mind.

I don't think it's a horrible idea, but it probably wouldn't be as fun of a daily driver anymore because it would be too much of a pig in corners.

Swarzkopf · Jun 25, 2006

How much does a 460 weigh compared to a 32V 4.6?

SeventyMach1 · Jun 25, 2006

I have a friend that's using a v6 car for a 460 project.

The 32V 4.6 DOHC that came in Cobra's is WIDER than a 460 big block.

loudpedal99 · Jun 25, 2006

If you went with aluminum heads, that would counteract some of the weight. I don't think the weight would be as big of an issue. If you are fabricating engine mounts, you would be able to experiment with engine setback, which would help the distribution. How much does a 460 weigh over a 302? 2-250lbs more?

dstanggt50 · Jun 25, 2006

I've never owned a bb car, or swapped in one, but I would guess you would need motor mounts, headers, new hood, bellhousing, tranny, and all the supporting hardware. Although I thought I've seen bb motors in our cars in some mags in the past. It would be cool to have, but I think I would rather build a boosted small block.

95riosnake · Jun 25, 2006

While the cool factor, and big power pevels that may come with a big block are nice, I think a small block (351 based) could do much better. I mean if you went with a 418 or 427 small block, I would think that would give you just as much power and nearly as many cubic inches to work with. The main problem I would have is the weight, and trying to setup fuel injection for the BB (would be expensive cuz none of the small block ford fuel injection/intakes would work). I just couldn't go from fuel injection to carb. Carbs are good for major hp drag cars (and old muscle cars), but they are too finicky for a street car IMO, and especially anything that would be driven on even a somewhat regular basis.

In short, in my opinion, a well built stroked 351-based small block with either high compression or a power adder would be a much better setup in our cars.

mackey · Jun 25, 2006

Nothing wrong with a carb on a street car. Especially when you know what you are doing.

The whole problem with building bigblocks is the heads cost so much money you don't see alot of them around in cars. If it was such an easy swap, you would see tons of them in 87-93 mustangs.

Price wise, it may be better to go with a 351 stroker if you are on a budget.

But then again if the sky is the limit with money. Do the 460. You will not regret it when it is done.

Swarzkopf · Jun 25, 2006

Yeah, I honestly expect that the DOHC 4.6s weigh more than the 460s do...so I don't think weight is THAT much of a consideration.

My perspective...

A big block late model Mustang is a very cool idea. That said, I'd NEVER do it. Unless you are going for total, maximum, full bore drag strip performance there really isn't anything that a big block can provide that a small block can't. Yes, in the end, a big block can and will always make more power...but you aren't going to do much with that in a street car anyway, and at the level where the big block would start to show it's advantage, you'd be talking major, major money and effort at a level I've never seen discussed on this forum.

The torque curve of a big block is incredible- but I think that the same feeling can be accomplished with the right small block with the right forced induction, and it'd be so much easier to do.

Cool idea, just not for me. Mild big blocks make insane power and torque, but I'm sure a stroked small block and a Kenny Bell could fool some people into thinking there's big cubes under the hood.

bjl95mustang · Jun 25, 2006

There is a gal here in austin who has a pink drag car with a 460 in it. Has power brakes too. Her name is ponybabe and her car was just in modified mustangs. It's a nice car.

http://www.austinareastangs.com/aassite2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=34041

Killercanary · Jun 25, 2006

I had a buddy that put the FRPP 514 into his '98 stang. This was back in 2000. He stopped coming to the track and I don't know what ever happened to the car. It was a solid 11 second ride with trap speeds in the low 120's.

MysteryMachine · Jun 25, 2006

Killer have any pics of it? What kinda setup was he running? Did he ever complain about it? Was it a track only car?

Killercanary · Jun 25, 2006

I don't have any pics of his setup. It wasn't his DD, but he drove it to and from the track. It was a carb'd setup with an auto. I know at the time he said he spent less money on that setup than what a Sean Highland shortblock and a power adder would have cost him if he had stayed with the 4.6L.

MysteryMachine · Jun 25, 2006

So it was smog legal? or did he not have to worry about it cause of low miles

Killercanary · Jun 25, 2006

We didn't have emissions around here back then.

Pokageek · Jun 25, 2006

Big blocks were great for heavier cars of yester-year. Our cars are lighter for the most part.. but again, now we are seeing a repeat of heavier cars.

The new GT500=3900+ pounds, the Dodge Magnum SRT=4200+ pounds..According to edmunds, stock GT weight was 3250 or so. So roughly for every 100 pounds you need to add 10HP...I really don't know where I am going with this but definitely some interesting factors involved.

95strokerPSU · Jun 26, 2006

The guy whos 95 Cobra I saw with the 460 was being built strickly for the strip. It was fully tubed with ladder bars, a built shorten 9" and I think he said he was gonna run 31x18 slicks(?). The motor itself only put out about 450 to the wheels, but he was also going to be running a 300 shot of nitrous and shooting for 9's.

final5-0 · Jun 26, 2006

Have owned and been around lots of big block Ford powered cars.

The torque is awesome

SBF's & BBF's behave very differently

Kinda like the diff between Vortech & KB

Those motors are HEAVY

Hot Rod parts for em are EXPENSIVE

I prefer how the SBF builds power with revs myself

Just move up one step from small block to middle block

Stroked Windsor is lighter & makes great hp/tq

Grady

MysteryMachine · Jun 26, 2006

Forgot Paul from Lancaster west was lucky no emissions. We've had it forever.

450 is low for a 460 ain't it?

I'd really like to see a street SN with a bb just to for one see it and talk to them on how it runs and feels.

DocZG · Jun 28, 2006

I think a stock 460 weighs about 720lbs. I would say with aluminum heads and intake that you could get it under 650. I think a stock 351 weights about 550 or so. SCJ heads for a BBF will set you back around $2000 (afr 205 are $1750) but they flow 330/225. A scat 557 stroker kit with probe pistons is $1250 on ebay. You can carb or Probe has efi converted Victor Jrs for $750 w/ fuel rails.

You would have a lighter car with a stroked 351, but you cant say you have a 557

The 2002 (i think it was 02) cobra R used a 5.4 with a cast block/alum head engine, that had to weight at least 600lbs, and that car turned out ok.....

Is Big Block power worth it?

MysteryMachine

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illwood

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Swarzkopf

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SeventyMach1

Keep it lubed .... keep it straight .... and keep

loudpedal99

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mackey

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The car that set the bar.

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The car that set the bar.

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The car that set the bar.

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