Is it really worth it?

crew_dawg16 · Jun 22, 2004

Hey everyone, I am going to apologize up front for this thread, but I had to ask some people who have seen both sides of it.

I recently bought my 2003 GT and was thinking of what to do to it next. There seems to be a never-ending supply of every "bolt-on" you can imagine for these cars. They all seem to give you 5-10 rwhp or maybe a little more or less. They cost so damn much money that I started adding it up. It worked out to be an insane amount of money for little horsepower. Why do we do it, and why does the 4.6 not respond to mods very well? It seems like all you can do it supercharge it or throw nitrous at it until you are happy. For example, a full exhaust for these cars would run approximately $1500 if it was SS quality parts. What do you get? around 20-25 rwhp? A supercharger is about three times that, but you get so much more power.

Again, sorry but I had to ask

kurst · Jun 22, 2004

well most people know exhaust is more to please the ear then the seat of your pants...

But that is a good point, and I think a lot of it has to do with people not thinking enough. They dream about power gains of superchargers or turbos but they feel they can't afford that, so they'd rather spend $500 dollars every six months on lesser mods.

Then again those lesser mods don't threaten the life of the engine as much as serious power adders do either... and most people stretching to save up for a supercharger know they won't be able to afford a new engine when they blow it.

neoclasiccl · Jun 22, 2004

Bolt ons are good for those who cant dump $4000 down for a supercharger. But if you do all the bolt ons it's almost as much as a supercharger.

crew_dawg16 · Jun 22, 2004

good point on the blown engine. Even with a safe tune i guess you would still create tons more wear on your internals since they aren't designed to handle that power. So I guess you would have to figure another $1500 for forged internals into your supercharger costs. So now you are up to around $7000 for a KB with forged internals. By that time, your wallet is
I guess bolt-ons aren't all bad, and I do like the sound of aftermarket exhaust.

A little off topic, but when are we going to see more intake manifolds??

crew_dawg16 · Jun 22, 2004

neoclasiccl said:
Bolt ons are good for those who cant dump $4000 down for a supercharger. But if you do all the bolt ons it's almost as much as a supercharger.

Yeah, but with not nearly as much power. But I guess it satisfies the mod bug over time. I like to do well rounded mods as well, like the cobra brake upgrade, gauges, upper intake, etc...

bdcardinal · Jun 22, 2004

i think there are 3 or 4 on the market now. the problem i think is that the normal manufacturers kinda cringe at the thought. also the stock manifold is fairly good. ford did their homework on it. true it is plastic and cracks, but its a fairly good design for a stock manifold. also the numbers ive seen on the aftermarket manifolds arent that much better than stock, yes they are improved, but they generally arent something that the average modder would want to attempt on their own.

DBMSTNG · Jun 22, 2004

you could always do it bass-ackwards like me and get the blower first.

just save money and buy a bunch of parts at once. you'll notice a bigger difference and hopefully that will give you greater satisfaction.

crew_dawg16 · Jun 22, 2004

Advice taken, I guess that could make me feel better about my purchases. Except for the exhaust, stuff is so damn expensive I can't buy more than that at one time.

Purebred · Jun 22, 2004

I'm skipping the bolt-ons and going straight for the good stuff

Including of course, a blower

2012 · Jun 22, 2004

My motivation to mod is mostly done for enjoyment. This is the first time I've ever pulled out a wrench on a car.

I've got the flowmasters, the tri-ax, and the grill delete (if you call that a mod) and had a ball installing these things.

Saturday, changed oil for the first time in my life. Enjoyed doing it.

Right now, my agenda is to put on the mach 1 chin spoiler, pro-chamber or maybe upr x, rear seat delete, dash kit, and then look hard at the Kenne Bell.

When I bought this car, my mom said to me " aren't you old (29) for a mustang. Don't you want something like a Envoy!" I've been wanting a V8 stang since I was 16 years old. I love this car. I did think that the honeymoon would end after a few months, but it's been half a year, I'm still happy to drive it. I get up 20 minutes early and take the long way to work.

My motivation to mod is part performance/style enhancement but alot of enjoyment.

mpcv2000 · Jun 22, 2004

When you shop for mods don't forget that you have to cut in half what you read in the Magazine. ( horsepower wise )

My car is a money pit , but I don't mind it's my hobby

This week I will spend about $800.00 USD for cams plus misc. parts just to get this rough idle thing and I'm expecting to get 15 RWHP and this is very on the high side..

I can't wait to sit at the red light and have my car idleing like a old hot rod

Bye bye gas millage but I don't care..

propellerhead · Jun 22, 2004

2012 said:
. . . When I bought this car, my mom said to me " aren't you old (29) for a mustang. Don't you want something like a Envoy!" . . .

Hahahaha! Tell her I got my 40th Anniv Mustang this year. The same year I turned 40.

mpcv2000 · Jun 22, 2004

2012 said:
My motivation to mod is mostly done for enjoyment.

I get up 20 minutes early and take the long way to work.

I'm the same way !

01mgvert · Jun 22, 2004

I've spent about $2,000 for performance parts and another $1,000 for labor. What has $3,000 gotten me? 37 rwhp. Of course, I am not done. For another $4,000, I will have the heads polished and ported and add custom cams. Why do it? Because I like Mustangs and acceleration is addicting. Actually, as others have mentioned, performance modifications are a hobby that you either get or you don't.

FallenPhoenix · Jun 22, 2004

hell, it's fun to tack on parts a little at a time. I take pride in working on my own car and right now I can't do a huge install like headers or cams or a blower since it's my daily driver, but it's still a blast to put the little parts on.

edwardohaskillo · Jun 23, 2004

"There seems to be a never-ending supply of every "bolt-on" you can imagine for these cars. They all seem to give you 5-10 rwhp or maybe a little more or less. They cost so damn much money that I started adding it up. It worked out to be an insane amount of money for little horsepower. Why do we do it, and why does the 4.6 not respond to mods very well?"

Well there's the old adage that there's no replacement for displacement...tho forced induction comes close. The problem is not just the displacement but the entire architecture of the engine. These little engines only have 3.5 inch bores, with lousy bore spacing. So boring them out to 4" (like they should have been from the beginning) is impossible. Scrawny little bores shroud the valves and decrease flow. Four valves help, but are costly. Same goes for blowers.

I happen to believe that if GM had have had the stones to back the F bodies and actually build 'em so they didn't nickel and dime you to death, Ford would have had to respond by ditching the modular engine and redesigning the old 302 and/or maybe adding a 351. OHV V8s with 2.02 inch intake valves are just so much easier and cheaper to build than these mod engines.

As it was the stangs were just build so much better than the firebird/camaro. Plus you gotta remember the nineties to present is a retro era. Probably because of the mellinium change. Vulcan/Road Star/Shadow = Harley, Miata = MG, Viper = 427 cobra, and Mustang = well, Mustang! Ford was smart enough to start making the SN 95s resemble the first gen mustangs. Bye bye competition, and bye bye tweakable muscle cars for the common man.

The fact is FoMoCo has done a bangup job of wringing out a great deal of hp out of these little engines. The ford engineers have left very little to the imagination. They have already covered almost all the bases. It's just a shame the guts aren't forged.

noyolastang · Jun 23, 2004

2012 said:
My motivation to mod is mostly done for enjoyment. This is the first time I've ever pulled out a wrench on a car.

I've got the flowmasters, the tri-ax, and the grill delete (if you call that a mod) and had a ball installing these things.

Saturday, changed oil for the first time in my life. Enjoyed doing it.

Right now, my agenda is to put on the mach 1 chin spoiler, pro-chamber or maybe upr x, rear seat delete, dash kit, and then look hard at the Kenne Bell.

When I bought this car, my mom said to me " aren't you old (29) for a mustang. Don't you want something like a Envoy!" I've been wanting a V8 stang since I was 16 years old. I love this car. I did think that the honeymoon would end after a few months, but it's been half a year, I'm still happy to drive it. I get up 20 minutes early and take the long way to work.

My motivation to mod is part performance/style enhancement but alot of enjoyment.

Thats the spirit!

Betrayer00GT · Jun 23, 2004

edwardohaskillo said:
The fact is FoMoCo has done a bangup job of wringing out a great deal of hp out of these little engines. The ford engineers have left very little to the imagination. They have already covered almost all the bases. It's just a shame the guts aren't forged.

When I can put on a plenum and a TB and get almost 8HP out of a stock GT (99+) and a FoMoCo 4.6 comes with 260HP from the factory, I have a hard time answering the ricers that ask me how come their 2.2L 4cyl Honda from '98 comes with 200 HP.

I have more than the equivilent of 2 of those engines under my hood (2.2 * 2 = 4.4) and have only another 60HP because of it. This depresses me, somewhat.

The '05+ helps, as you get 100HP over the honda, but still, not the doubling you would expect, logically if FoMoCo was as good at pulling HP from Liters as is Honda.

Don't get me wrong, I am not compaining. I know that again, logically, you would need to have half the gas mileage of the Prelude engine I refered to earlier in order to have double the HP, and Ford would never put out a GT that got 10MPG, for obvious reasons. If I wanted to, I could drop the $10K+ for the Ford "cammer" they put in the GT-R prototype and get 440HP out of a 5L engine. That is basically the same HP/L as the Prelude I refered to.

What I am saying is I have to call to your statement that a 260HP number out of a 4.6L V8 means FoMoCo "has done a bangup job of wringing out a great deal of hp out of these little engines".

Just my opinion.

FallenPhoenix · Jun 23, 2004

torque numbers would be a better comparison but I have no idea on the prelude engine so I'm not even going to try

Ford would do themselves and the rodding community a great service if they would design a short block like the LS1, minus the piston slap, and use OHC design heads on it.

Betrayer00GT · Jun 23, 2004

FallenPhoenix said:
torque numbers would be a better comparison but I have no idea on the prelude engine so I'm not even going to try

TQ is no comparison. Identical HP engines with different TQ #s can be geared so that there is no detectible difference between them. See here if you care for an explanation:

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=369246

Is it really worth it?

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