Habu135
5 Year Member
Is the foxbody considered a muscle car?
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Habu135
5 Year Member
The Chrysler Omni GLH while an impressive car for its day isn't a muscle car. I would say a muscle car is a stand out for its day. Something well ahead of its time. A GNX could be considered a muscle car and I would say the early SLP equipped Firehawks could be muscle cars.
I would say that ignores the blue collar spirit of a muscle car. It was something that everyday workers could afford; cost about the same as any other car.
Kurt
the term Pony car was given to the first generation Mustang, and became the class designator for the rest of the cars that competed in that size class. I agree, it was originally limited to a 350 size small block as a Max engine to fit in that class. You have to remember that you could get a 250, a 289,302, and a 351 in a 67/69 Mustang, and a 250,283,302,307,327,and a 350 in a 67/69 Camaro.
Fords muscle car was a Fairlane, ( originally a galaxy 500) Chevrolets' car was of course the Chevelle, but in the early years was also an impala.
Muscle cars were big assed 2 ton plus sleds, that needed 400+ cubic inches to move their heavy asses down the drag strip. I was fortunate enough to have been around to see " muscle cars".. A perfect " friend's" 63 Galaxy w/ a427 med riser/ toploader 4speed, With aluminum fenders, and fiberglass hoods and bumpers...
Fords muscle car was a Fairlane, ( originally a galaxy 500) Chevrolets' car was of course the Chevelle, but in the early years was also an impala.
Muscle cars were big assed 2 ton plus sleds, that needed 400+ cubic inches to move their heavy asses down the drag strip. I was fortunate enough to have been around to see " muscle cars".. A perfect " friend's" 63 Galaxy w/ a427 med riser/ toploader 4speed, With aluminum fenders, and fiberglass hoods and bumpers...
GalacticPonage
Active Member
Muscle cars were an era in the 60s-early 70s and ended when the gas crisis/ EPA became a thing. Big cars with big cube motors. The foxbody, small car with a small motor, is not a muscle car. As much as I love them that’s just not what they are. Ford marketed them to compete with European sports cars i.e. the hatchback and escort styling.
Eh, I would say that's misleading. No one cared what came out of Europe back then. The Mustang was a new thing to appeal to a different market. It didn't start out as a Muscle Car, but it grew into one as demands changed. It's still one of the few cars of the era you could buy in a certain trim level and run a low 13 second quarter mile.
Kurt
GalacticPonage
Active Member
You’re right, no one could really say what ford was exactly marketing to. I recently watched old top gears review of the foxbody on YouTube and this was clarksons speculation.
Do you have a Season and episode number? I am interested? I mean, I have literally every Top Gear on my hard drive, but I am not sure which one you are talking about.
Kurt
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GalacticPonage
Active Member
91TwighlightGT
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Come on. Do I really need to add the disclaimer for the base models? We are talking about “muscle cars” and why the Fox body could be considered in that category. The point is that in the 80’s the 302 was a relatively large engine compared to most other cars. There were many larger options in the 60s and 70s.
We all know that Ford sells a ton of base model anything’s.
Yeah, I get all that. It's a great discussion, that's all. I am talking about Muscle Car in the perspective that it was affordable performance for the average Joe.
Kurt
Agreed, it's an RS, and it's a hot hatch. I personally would never refer to it as a muscle car. However, how does that figure into the spirit of a Muscle car. It's a Focus Titanium with more power and really nice seats. Basic Ford sedan with more power and performance. Can you see that perspective?
Kurt
Damn, that is really old Top Gear. I am definitely going to check that out.
Kurt
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No.
It's no different than what the Europeans do. They take a Golf hatch, make it nicer and faster, and call it a hot hatch. Muscle cars are about going fast in a straight line, hot hatches are about being fun and practical at the same time.
I can see that. But I am not sure that is how someone would see it in 1964. Not much from Europe in 1964 was available for a working class guy that was good at either.
Kurt
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British cars with American V8s from the mid 60s were a thing. The Gordon-Keeble GT had a Chevy 327, and the AC Cobra (upon which the Shelby Cobra was based) started out with the 221 Windsor and kept getting bigger engines until the 427 FE was stuffed in it.
Then there's the Jensen Interceptor, which came along in 1966 with a Chrysler 383 (it also later had the 440 and 360).
Yes, the Europeans had American muscle in the 1960s.
Gs1987GT
Active Member
Ok, I'm old school and just plain old at least in my eyes so take this for what it's worth.
I owned a 1969 Pontiac GTO. It was a $600 basket case I pulled out of an alley in the early 90s and restored as best as I could back then on a limited budget. It was a 400 ci/4 speed car, no options. Manual steering, manual brakes, no ac. With me in it, it weighed 3450lbs (yes scaled weight). That was with all sound deadening removed, no spare tire, half tank of fuel.
I was running ported #670 heads, roller rockers, edelbrock torquer 2 intake, Holley 750 DP, lunati bracket master cam and Mallory unilite ignition. It ran very well.
To me, THAT was a true muscle car. 60s and 70s "mid" size cars with large displacement engines. Factory race cars basically. That was when I also started getting into Mustangs also. As much as I love fox body stangs, as said, to me they are pony cars, just like the Camaro, not muscle cars as my GTO was.
Just my .02.
I owned a 1969 Pontiac GTO. It was a $600 basket case I pulled out of an alley in the early 90s and restored as best as I could back then on a limited budget. It was a 400 ci/4 speed car, no options. Manual steering, manual brakes, no ac. With me in it, it weighed 3450lbs (yes scaled weight). That was with all sound deadening removed, no spare tire, half tank of fuel.
I was running ported #670 heads, roller rockers, edelbrock torquer 2 intake, Holley 750 DP, lunati bracket master cam and Mallory unilite ignition. It ran very well.
To me, THAT was a true muscle car. 60s and 70s "mid" size cars with large displacement engines. Factory race cars basically. That was when I also started getting into Mustangs also. As much as I love fox body stangs, as said, to me they are pony cars, just like the Camaro, not muscle cars as my GTO was.
Just my .02.
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