I've Decided To Build A 351/400

from6to8 · Feb 6, 2016

madmike1157 said:
***Sigh..... If you actually said all of that out loud, you'd be out of breath. Two words of advice:

Periods, spell check.

It's a "Dart" block. Not a dark block (unless you paint it black)

When people say 363 they mean a Dart blocked 8.2" deck 5.0 based build. A stock 351 bored .030 (all the bigger you'd want to go) is 357.
The stroker kits available for a stock 351 come in two variations,.... that being a 393, or a 408. Bigger builds require a larger than 4.060 bore, and are better accomplished w/ a Dart block.

If you have someone who you trust emphatically,......why all the hub bub then?

In other words,....why muddy up the water w/ indecision, when your trusted "nerd gearhead" is already advising you as well?

Because I am I getting people I don't know if he owns Mustangs so I am asking people directly about their opinions that's just what it is this is a form its opinion based people who have experienced things and have went through certain things are giving me their opinions for whomever I choose to help out it's just what it is so that's what I mean I am asking and I am taking everything putting it all into a vacuum and I will still ultimately make my decision based on everything that I gather so yes I don't call and text him every 5 minutes to ask him a question about a build I am gathering all information he does text back in reply whenever I hit him up but this is what the forum is for as well.

If I was home on my laptop everything would be better spelling punctuation grammar etc but I'm not going to apologize lol I'm sure people can figure out what I am saying blame it on speech to text which no matter how perfectly you speak it still find a way to you up lol yes. And like I said I will have everything written down all options with cost and everything considered and will make my decision probably within the next few weeks

CarMichael Angelo · Feb 6, 2016

from6to8 said:
Because I am I getting people I don't know if he owns Mustangs so I am asking people directly about their opinions that's just what it is this is a form its opinion based people who have experienced things and have went through certain things are giving me their opinions for whomever I choose to help out it's just what it is so that's what I mean I am asking and I am taking everything putting it all into a vacuum and I will still ultimately make my decision based on everything that I gather so yes I don't call and text him every 5 minutes to ask him a question about a build I am gathering all information he does text back in reply whenever I hit him up but this is what the forum is for as well.

If I was home on my laptop everything would be better spelling punctuation grammar etc but I'm not going to apologize lol I'm sure people can figure out what I am saying blame it on speech to text which no matter how perfectly you speak it still find a way to **** you up lol yes. And like I said I will have everything written down all options with cost and everything considered and will make my decision probably within the next few weeks

regardless It doesnt bother him (you nerd gearhead) when you dont stop one second to put a period or check tosee if youre making sense or have spelled a word wrong or put in letters that dont belong like iii despite the fact that you are going to town like a madman with your thumbs instead of looking at what you are writing please consider dragging your nails across a chalkboard instead because id find that more pleasurable as opposed to reading one rambling text with thoughts scattered all over the place now that i think of it arent you the guy that was posting an xd at the end of your text or was that another guy that used his phone to communicate instead of looking at the content before pressing the post reply button its one thing to blame the phone and believe me i know its a pain in the ass when the thing tries to auto correct every word you write but consider who is reading what you are writing because it makes little of no sense.

How does that look to you?

from6to8 · Feb 6, 2016

madmike1157 said:
regardless It doesnt bother him (you nerd gearhead) when you dont stop one second to put a period or check tosee if youre making sense or have spelled a word wrong or put in letters that dont belong like iii despite the fact that you are going to town like a madman with your thumbs instead of looking at what you are writing please consider dragging your nails across a chalkboard instead because id find that more pleasurable as opposed to reading one rambling text with thoughts scattered all over the place now that i think of it arent you the guy that was posting an xd at the end of your text or was that another guy that used his phone to communicate instead of looking at the content before pressing the post reply button its one thing to blame the phone and believe me i know its a pain in the ass when the thing tries to auto correct every word you write but consider who is reading what you are writing because it makes little of no sense.

How does that look to you?

Actually I did take the small bit of time I had to check a little bit

When I read it I thought it was good enough for people to understand considering the circumstances so

from6to8 · Feb 8, 2016

revhead347 said:
351 block means a cowl hood, or an intake so helpless it kills your power. Low end torque is over rated. No matter which engine you end up with, you are going to have far more low end torque than a street tire can handle. If you have a drag tire, you launch at 5000+rpms, and the engine never goes below 4000rpms for the entire quarter mile. Don't get bent around the barrel over the low end torque thing, it won't be an issue. I am not trying to talk you into one engine or the other. Just be aware that the 351 swaps add a lot of cost that isn't initially obvious.

The transmission thing is a topic that has been beaten to death on this forum. I honestly don't have a firm answer on which transmission is better. I'll give you the quick and dirty. The T5 has pretty small gears in it. So no matter how strong the gears are, they still fall victim to their size. The TKO600 has much bigger gears and bearings, but some argue that the length of the shafts make them vulnerable to flexxing, making them as weak as the Astro T5s. The TKO transmission case is also kind of thin in the front and cracks sometimes (I've cracked two of them). The T56 (6 speed) has the exact same gear size and bearings as the TKO and a better case, but it's heavier and more expensive. I actually do some occasional transmission work here for our business, but I am by no means an expert. If you want good manual transmission advice, talk to Bob or Linda Hanlon of Hanlon Motorsports in Pennsylvania. They are by far the best in the business, and have never steered me wrong. And if you feel they give you good advice, do the right thing and buy a transmission from them. Having one of the higher power Mustangs on this forum, I can tell you that everything breaks when you have a big engine. Get used to fixing things. It doesn't mean you made the wrong choice, or the quality is crap, stuff just breaks.

The engine mounts are up to you. The poly ones are probably good enough. The solid ones won't break, but they will make the car vibrate more. Vibration isn't only bad for you, it's bad for electronics, and it's going to vibrate bolts loose. Serious drag racers who use an engine plate typically spend their pre race time making sure every bolt is tight, because something has rattled loose on the previous race. There is no magic in this world. Every choice has a consequence. We do the best we can.

Kurt

Called and talked to Linda this morning. She said a TKO 600 would be what I need at minimal if I were to do a 400 ci. $3800-4200 including BH, clutch, yoke and pro 5.0 shifter , no core charge. The Astro A5 would be $2400 including a $300 core that you would get back when you sent your tranny in. Astro only rated up to 485 ft lbs of torque while the A5 is rated up to 600 I'm thinking. So I just have to think about it.

What manual transmissions handle up to 1000 hp? Just asking for reference as I know there are guys who have built that much hp lol

A5literMan · Feb 8, 2016

from6to8 said:
Called and talked to Linda this morning. She said a TKO 600 would be what I need at minimal if I were to do a 400 ci. $3800-4200 including BH, clutch, yoke and pro 5.0 shifter , no core charge. The Astro A5 would be $2400 including a $300 core that you would get back when you sent your tranny in. Astro only rated up to 485 ft lbs of torque while the A5 is rated up to 600 I'm thinking. So I just have to think about it.

What manual transmissions handle up to 1000 hp? Just asking for reference as I know there are guys who have built that much hp lol

Most (that stay manual) run a Magnum T56 when making that much power. Almost all of the drag racers go with an automatic. All transmissions at that power level need consistent maintenance and overhauls.

Just to let you know the A5 vs TKO is an almost identical cost. You have to replace all of those things you listed above with an A5 just like a TKO. For what you've described as your intended use of the car and power level, either should work.

from6to8 · Feb 8, 2016

A5literMan said:
Most (that stay manual) run a Magnum T56 when making that much power. Almost all of the drag racers go with an automatic. All transmissions at that power level need consistent maintenance and overhauls.

Just to let you know the A5 vs TKO is an almost identical cost. You have to replace all of those things you listed above with an A5 just like a TKO. For what you've described as your intended use of the car and power level, either should work.

Isn't the A5 a better rebuilt T5 with much better internals? I remember someone telling me maybe on another forum that that was one good thing about going with the A5 that it would be a direct bolt up and not needing to change bellhousings or anything. So if I don't need any of those other things, other than the clutch, It's about a $700 difference. I mean the TK 600 is rated to around 125 more ft lb of torque it sounds so I would consider that in case I decide to have it built for a possible blower later on.

A5literMan · Feb 8, 2016

I would upgrade the bellhousing. If the clutch comes apart and blows through the BH...equals bad for your legs etc.

The A5 is a 26 spline shaft like the TKO. They replace the standard 10 spline input shaft. There is no 10 spline trans that will hold up long to your power level. So you need a different clutch,BH(IMO),and an aftermarket shifter(if you don't have one all ready). So there may be a little savings but not much and it's not as "indestructible" as a TKO 600. So a slightly lower price tag for a slightly less quality trans. IMO it's a wash. While looking at all these options myself, I'd go with a Liberty Gear TKO with their upgrade for 2800$(w/shifter),and add a QuickTime bell,and a Ram twin disc clutch. Expensive but worth it if you can afford it.

If you build any decent 400" inch motor, it's going to make 500+ ft lbs torque. If you add any power adder to that or sticky tires(track time)...A5 is questionable. Your legs will thank you if you use a safety BH and a good dual disc clutch. These are all the reasons why people on here ask and explain the additional costs of such a project. Motors are expensive but the "extras" add up.

from6to8 · Feb 8, 2016

A5literMan said:
I would upgrade the bellhousing. If the clutch comes apart and blows through the BH...equals bad for your legs etc.

The A5 is a 26 spline shaft like the TKO. They replace the standard 10 spline input shaft. There is no 10 spline trans that will hold up long to your power level. So you need a different clutch,BH(IMO),and an aftermarket shifter(if you don't have one all ready). So there may be a little savings but not much and it's not as "indestructible" as a TKO 600. So a slightly lower price tag for a slightly less quality trans. IMO it's a wash. While looking at all these options myself, I'd go with a Liberty Gear TKO with their upgrade for 2800$(w/shifter),and add a QuickTime bell,and a Ram twin disc clutch. Expensive but worth it if you can afford it.

If you build any decent 400" inch motor, it's going to make 500+ ft lbs torque. If you add any power adder to that or sticky tires(track time)...A5 is questionable. Your legs will thank you if you use a safety BH and a good dual disc clutch. These are all the reasons why people on here ask and explain the additional costs of such a project. Motors are expensive but the "extras" add up.

Yeah Liberty is who I called............Wait a minute lol. As per Kurt on page 4 of this thread to contact Hanlon motorsports, they sell a package what I just named a few posts ago. When you said liberty I couldn't remember if it was you or someone else who mentioned liberty and now that I'm thinking about it wasn't sure if that's the same place or not that has the liberty gears for the trannies. I guess you can clear that all up The quote of $38-4200 was for the TKO 600. She said it'd more than likely be around $3800 ish

I have a pro 5.0 shifter already but ofcourse for the tremec the pattern is different.

TOOLOW91 · Feb 8, 2016

Also the a5 unless the case is upgraded in some way still suffers from major flex hence why they still tend to come apart .

Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

addermk2 · Feb 8, 2016

Eh.... built auto with pushbutton shifting.

It's pretty bad ass.

A5literMan · Feb 8, 2016

I'm a manual trans guy myself, if it's just a fun street car. Big power/and/or drag racing = auto. It's just easier.
I've already stated my manual trans preference. But there are people who have ran the A5 without problems.

from6to8 · Feb 8, 2016

A5literMan said:
I'm a manual trans guy myself, if it's just a fun street car. Big power/and/or drag racing = auto. It's just easier.
I've already stated my manual trans preference. But there are people who have ran the A5 without problems.

is Liberty gears just the gears they use in the trannies or is it a different place altogether?

another thing that sold me on the A5 was being able to use everything I have pretty much and it being a direct bolt in but you stated a few posts ago that isn't the case totally. And as I said to another poster few secs ago I've heard a lot of guys didn't like the way the tremec shifts or harshness IIRC and said the A5 is the smoothest shifting tranny.

from6to8 · Feb 8, 2016

TOOLOW91 said:
Also the a5 unless the case is upgraded in some way still suffers from major flex hence why they still tend to come apart .

Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

I read some reviews different places where guys didn't like the way the tremec shifts. Not sure if it's ALL tremecs or what. They said the A5 is the smoothest shifting tranny for sure. Now I know there are a lot of variables in deciding on one. I'd like to consider the smoothness of the shifts and everything for sure as well because the car will be driven mainly as a weekend driving nice street car but ofcourse I'll play around on the street sometimes

from6to8 · Feb 8, 2016

addermk2 said:
Eh.... built auto with pushbutton shifting.

It's pretty bad ass.

if I was a racer like that I'd probably agree

TOOLOW91 · Feb 8, 2016

from6to8 said:
I read some reviews different places where guys didn't like the way the tremec shifts. Not sure if it's ALL tremecs or what. They said the A5 is the smoothest shifting tranny for sure. Now I know there are a lot of variables in deciding on one. I'd like to consider the smoothness of the shifts and everything for sure as well because the car will be driven mainly as a weekend driving nice street car but ofcourse I'll play around on the street sometimes

It's a little notchy but nothing to write home about. At 6000 banging 2nd on the street it goes into gear just fine .

Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

from6to8 · Feb 8, 2016

TOOLOW91 said:
It's a little notchy but nothing to write home about. At 6000 banging 2nd on the street it goes into gear just fine .

Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

a little notchy as the feel going into gear? I have the stock 95 v6 tranny, which Linda @ Handlon motorsports said is the same as the v8 tranny. I always noticed sort of a feel when holding onto the shifter before shifts, it had sort of a slight vibration. Not nothing like shaking shaking, and maybe that's the notchy feel you mean. I'm thinking that's normal though for most trannies or not?

Also, what radiator are you running? Some guys had success with the stocker with their big motor. As for me, the fluidyne that I've had probably since 04-05 it has a leak at the fins and I read some bad reviews about them a few years ago. I do have a stocker in the barn and might just use it and see if it keeps the car cool with the new motor; either 363 or 400

TOOLOW91 · Feb 8, 2016

from6to8 said:
a little notchy as the feel going into gear? I have the stock 95 v6 tranny, which Linda @ Handlon motorsports said is the same as the v8 tranny. I always noticed sort of a feel when holding onto the shifter before shifts, it had sort of a slight vibration. Not nothing like shaking shaking, and maybe that's the notchy feel you mean. I'm thinking that's normal though for most trannies or not?

Also, what radiator are you running? Some guys had success with the stocker with their big motor. As for me, the fluidyne that I've had probably since 04-05 it has a leak at the fins and I read some bad reviews about them a few years ago. I do have a stocker in the barn and might just use it and see if it keeps the car cool with the new motor; either 363 or 400

It's more notchy in and out of gear but it doesn't bother me and is much better with an aftermarket shifter .

I run a mishimoto 3 core radiator .

Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

from6to8 · Feb 8, 2016

TOOLOW91 said:
It's more notchy in and out of gear but it doesn't bother me and is much better with an aftermarket shifter .

I run a mishimoto 3 core radiator .

Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

I have a billet adj fuel pressure regulator that I've had probably for about 9-10 yrs and seems to be working fine. Is there a certain one needed for a 351? If not I'd probably just use that one and the fluid filled fp gauge

90sickfox · Feb 8, 2016

I got my aluminum 3 row radiator from shepherd auto parts...for under 100 bucks shipped. The aluminum welds aren't polished but the workmanship is great. The reviews were also great.

from6to8 · Feb 8, 2016

90sickfox said:
I got my aluminum 3 row radiator from shepherd auto parts...for under 100 bucks shipped. The aluminum welds aren't polished but the workmanship is great. The reviews were also great.

sounds awfully cheap lol. I have to look at it and chec reviews too
how long have you had it?

I've Decided To Build A 351/400

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