I've Had It With My Power Steering Pump!

[Zigman]

Hi guys,
First time poster here. I am working on a 1978 Mustang II project that was my old high school car that I found 20+ years after I sold it. I recently put in a HO 302 from a early 90's mustang and pretty much rebuilt everything on the car. I have all new/remanufactured steering components including power steering pump and rack. The first reman pump that I put in was really noisy and it drove me crazy. I discovered this is a common problem with that era ford pumps. I tried every trick I found on the internet and it was still noisy. Therefore I decided to spend $165 on a new pump from Summit thinking that would solve the problem. No dice....this one is as noisy as the first one. I did the bleeding procedure exactly as in the directions and even ran the pump off my drill for a while before I even started the car. I think that I somehow still have air in the system and that is causing the noise, but I can't figure out how to get rid of it. I do have a PS cooler hooked up, so maybe that is the problem and trapping air? Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I am about ready to give up and get rid of the power steering and go manual, but I have so much money sunk into the system right now. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[LILCBRA]

I have no experience bleeding a PS system, so I took to Google. Here is what I found:

https://www.cardone.com/tech-help/steering/how-it-works-best-practices/vacuum-bleeding

Maybe that can help you out? There was also a write up on The Ranger Station's website ( http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109908 ) that the poster hooked a line to engine vacuum and worked it out that way, although I don't know if I'd recommend that over using a manual vacuum pump. Best of luck and let us know how it worked out for you! I'm sure a similar question will be asked again in the future.....

 

[LILCBRA]

Oh.... and welcome to Stangnet!!

 

[Zigman]

Thanks for the reply. I will try to fabricate a vacuum pump to the system and give that a try. I think I am also going to ditch my PS cooler because I have a feeling that is holding some trapped air, and it is probably not necessary anyway. I will report back once I give it a try and let you know if that helped.

 

[MustangIIMatt]

See my post here: https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/2000-3-8-power-steering-noise.897578/#post-9046060

It honestly applies even more to the two pump designs used on a II than on the modern pumps, though it applies there as well.

 

[jozsefsz]

If your PS fluid is foamy then there's still some air in there. Otherwise turning lock-to-lock a few times and some time will gravity-bleed any air out of it. Otherwise it's just a noisy reman.

+1 on the Lucas. That can help a bit. I'd also completely drain and refill all the old fluid from the hoses, cooler, rack, several times over. The old crusty stuff in the II rack may not play well with a newer style pump. If you haven't already done so.

 

[Zigman]

Everything in the system is new or rebuilt (lines, rack and pump), and all new fluid as well. I thought the first reman pump was just noisy which is why I purchased a brand new, non-rebuilt unit....but it is as noisy as the first. I've turned the wheel lock to lock probably a hundred times trying to bleed the system. I also tried the Lucas fluid as well as adding friction modifier, but neither of those did anything to help. Today I removed the cooler and I am going to try hooking up vacuum to the system while running as LILCBRA suggested. I will let you know how that turns out.

 

[Zigman]

Update, I went through the bleeding process several more times. I also fabricated a way to hook vacuum up to the PS pump while running to purge air out of the system. That seemed to help somewhat, but when I took the car for a ride the noise got progressively worse and my fluid was foamy by the time I got back home. I spoke to the owner of the company that built the pump and he suggested that I may possibly have a bad seal in the rack that is introducing air into the system. However, it is a brand new (reman) rack and it is not leaking anywhere. He also confirmed that these Ford pumps are a bad design and that the GM Saginaw pump is a much better unit. However, I would be looking at dropping another $300+ into converting to a metal body Saginaw. I think before I went that route I would convert to manual steering and be done with it. I am about ready to give up, so if anybody has any additional thoughts I am all ears. Thanks!

 

[MustangIIMatt]

1. Junkyard pump (kid you not, we finally resorted to the original pump from my '76 Mustang II on my friend's '65 Galaxie, he got three noisy remans in a row).

2. The Lucas additive (one of the few times you'll find me recommending an additive).

3. Live with the noise (you used to be able to tell a 70s-80s Ford was coming from miles around due to the sheer number of noisey pumps out there).

4. Source a GM Saginaw pump and bracket off a Ford at the junkyard (I know for sure Ford put Saginaw pumps on vans, trucks, and Lincolns), may require swapping additional parts and/or fabrication.

5. Manual rack.

6. Roll the dice on another reman pump (I strongly recommend the Lucas additive from the get-go if going this route).

 

[Zigman]

74stang2togo,
- I have Lucas fluid in it now, but I realize Lucas makes 3 different products, regular fluid, fluid with additives, and one that it says fixes leaks (the one you pictured in your other post). Are you saying I should try that one? I just don't want to swell the seals on my new components....but perhaps I shouldn't worry about that. I currently have the Lucas with additives (but does not fix leaks).

- If I try to convert to a Saginaw pump, it looks like the Ford vans that had them typically had 351 motors. If I found something at the junkyard for the 351, would the bracket fit on my 302?

- If I convert to manual, any advice on how hard the steering would be? I have never driven a II with manual steering.

Thanks again for the responses!

 

[MustangIIMatt]

74stang2togo,
- I have Lucas fluid in it now, but I realize Lucas makes 3 different products, regular fluid, fluid with additives, and one that it says fixes leaks (the one you pictured in your other post). Are you saying I should try that one? I just don't want to swell the seals on my new components....but perhaps I shouldn't worry about that. I currently have the Lucas with additives (but does not fix leaks).

- If I try to convert to a Saginaw pump, it looks like the Ford vans that had them typically had 351 motors. If I found something at the junkyard for the 351, would the bracket fit on my 302?

- If I convert to manual, any advice on how hard the steering would be? I have never driven a II with manual steering.

Thanks again for the responses!

The Lucas that says it stops leaks primarily does so by being really thick. It's damned near gear oil thick. That's also how it shuts up Ford pumps.

Saginaw pumps can be found on 302s. The big difference between a 351 and 302 is deck height. Like I said on that one, fabrication or additional parts might be required.

Manual steering on a II with a manual rack isn't bad at all once you get rolling. It's while you're sitting still or barely moving that you'll miss power steering. I had manual steering in my '74 with a 2.3 in it. Right now I have the belt off the power steering pump in the '75 because the 40 year old rack blew a seal with a fresh reman pump.

 

[Zigman]

Well today I drained some fluid and added the Lucas product that was recommended. It was instantly quiet....so I thought it was a success. However, when I took the car for a ride, the noise came back progressively worse as I drove. Got back home and the fluid was all foam once again. Therefore, I don't know if that is telling me that my rack has bad seals that are allowing it to draw in air?

 

[jozsefsz]

It may just be taking a while for all the air to work its way out. The foam will disappear overnight. Me, I'd let it go for a while to see if it clears up. I recently changed a hose on a late-model Chevy and it took a few days before it stopped foaming and making noise (up to 50 full-lock turns they told me). Usually if it has a bad seal, you'll have fluid coming out along with the air going in. So maybe nothing to worry about?

 

[Zigman]

Just thought I would provide an update in case anyone is interested. After attempting every potential fix I could find....bleeding.....vacuum bleeding....Lucas fluid.....the noise just kept coming back worse and worse. I was so sick of spending money on the crap Ford style pump, I gave up and bought a GM metal body Saginaw pump with mounting brackets for a SBF. Instant success! This pump is super quiet and works great. Also, as an added bonus, you can adjust the pump output pressure so that it is compatible with the Mustang II rack to provide nice steering feel and not blow out the seals. Just thought I would mention this in case anybody is struggling with a noisy Ford style pump. My advice is to not waist time and money on the garbage pump that our cars came with and just convert to a GM style. It is a much better pump and is very quiet. The only downside is trying to find a hose that fits the II nicely. I ended up having a custom hose made because everything I could find on the web was simply too long. Thanks for all of the advice from the members here....especially 74stang2togo

 

[COBRA 7]

I have a 302 from a 76 cobra. It's a big metal tank compared to pumps now a days. Been running it for 30 plus years and over 100,000 miles. Still working and quiet as a mouse. Don't know if you could fab one on your engine.