KB versus Novi 2000 - which is better for cold weather, cold startups?
- Thread starter Ghost001
- Start date
Ghost001 said:
We've got a guy up here in the Niagara region that runs his intercooled KB 24/7. Beats the ever-loving $h!t out of his ride...never heard him complain. She's a daily driver for him...and that's all.
My car won't leave the garage if there's a chance of rain...and she's stored from November through March/April generally.
I did take the car out in March of this year...around -3 celcius...we put her in a big indoor hot rod show...not that I drove the car much...out of the garage...into the race trailer...out of the trailer into the show...etc. No problem whatsoever.
2000BLKGT said:We've got a guy up here in the Niagara region that runs his intercooled KB 24/7. Beats the ever-loving $h!t out of his ride...never heard him complain. She's a daily driver for him...and that's all.
My car won't leave the garage if there's a chance of rain...and she's stored from November through March/April generally.
I did take the car out in March of this year...around -3 celcius...we put her in a big indoor hot rod show...not that I drove the car much...out of the garage...into the race trailer...out of the trailer into the show...etc. No problem whatsoever.
Thanks, 2000!
Sounds like the KB doesn't mind cold weather.
I think I'm going to try to get a 2.2, somehow...
If not, then a 1.7 for sure.
2000BLKGT said:If you're going with the 2.2...better get out the $$$ and do the internals at the same time....you'll need an aftermarket hood too.
Saw a 2.2 or a 2.4 on an '03/04 Cobra recently...it's a big mofo...makes my 1.7 look tiny
I've got the aftermarket hood.
What I hope to do, is to install the 2.2 with my stock engine. I'll use a large pulley, so that it puts out about 400 horsepower on pump gas.
Then, when my engine dies, which hopefully will be 10 years from now, I'll get a forged short block, and then crank up the boost!
In fact, here's someone with the same idea, except he's using 94 octane (I'm stuck with 91 in Cally), and his is not a daily driver:
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33025
02LaserRed2V
New Member
If you're planning on going that route, then suggest you buy from KB direct. KB won't allow their dealers to sell the 2.2s to ppl who don't have a built motor.
Also, keep in mind, KB 1.7L 6 PSI is not the same as 2.2L 6 PSI. Even low boost levels with the 2.2L may prove to be much on a stock block.
Also, keep in mind, KB 1.7L 6 PSI is not the same as 2.2L 6 PSI. Even low boost levels with the 2.2L may prove to be much on a stock block.
jstreet0204
Active Member
02LaserRed2V said:
Do they use a different lower intake with the 2.2? If so I would agree with that, but if they use the same lower intake, intercooler etc., I think the same boost levels would have about the same effect on the motor, other than the fact that the 2.2 will build it faster.
Actually, pullied for 6psi the 1.7 will walk all over the 2.2. The 2.2 wasn't mean to run in the 6psi range. Hell, even the 1.7 is running inefficiently below 9-10psi and the 2.2 is going to be exponentially worse, the 2.2 is actually far better running at 18psi than it is at 6psi. A 2.2 running at 6psi would be so inefficient and put out such high ACT’s it's not even funny. Don't bother buying it now, if you're not able to build the engine for this blower to run at it’s intended potential at the same time. You've got to rip it all out again to build the long block anyway to withstand the power, so why waste the time, effort and run around with sub-par performance in the mean time just to tell people you’ve got a 2.2 under the hood?
The 1.7 is more than enough blower for most people. If you want to make 400hp, then buy a blower than meant to make 400hp. Buying a blower that’s too big is every bit as bad as buying a blower that’s too small.
03trubluGT
New Member
Just think of this. I have NEVER heard of someone running a blown engine for 10 years.
You will be rebuilding it before the 10 years, hell, probably after 3-4...
Matt
You will be rebuilding it before the 10 years, hell, probably after 3-4...
Matt
Gearbanger 101 said:
What's an "ACT"? After Cooler Temperature?
The reason I'd like the 2.2, is so that, when I finally do get a forged short block, I won't have to buy another supercharger.
Do you think that it would be difficult or impossible to pulley the 2.2 so that it gets 400-425 rwhp on 91 octane?
ACT stands for "Air Charge Temperature", which will skyrocket with a 2.2 pullied for only a measly 6psi of boost. That's like using a sledge-hammer to kill an ant. Yeah, it will get the job done, but it's still not the right tool for the job and it's gonna make more of a mess than anything!Ghost001 said:
No, it wouldn't be impossible to do, but a 1.7KB is able to do it just as easily and will cost you less and performe better in the lower ranges to boot. If you've already got all of the required intake and exhaust bolt-ons, you should easily see it with 9-10psi with a 1.7. Either way, you're gonna want to start looking for a forged short block for anything much more than 400rwhp.
Gearbanger 101 said:
Hmmmm. You're making a good argument for the 1.7.
If the 1.7 would perform better at low rpm than the 2.2, then maybe I should get the 1.7.
And, of course, the 1.7 is Cally legal, and the 2.2 is not.
And, if the 2.2 would cost a lot more than the 1.7, even with the stock short block, then that is another point in favor of the 1.7.
It would be interesting to see what kind of torque curve someone gets with a 2.2 on a stock short block on 91 octane.
I'm not trying to imply that the 2.2 won't perform well at lower boost levels or engine RPM under any circumstances. Quite frankly, the 2.2 could be made to rock and roll passed the 1.7 all the way through until redline, but only if pullied for it.Ghost001 said:
I'll try to explain it......You can take a 2.2, pulley it for 18-20psi and have it make power like mad up past 6psi on it's way to peek blower RPM (in this case 18-20psi), since the step-up ratio for the 2.2 has now changed dramatically in it's favor with the smaller pulley and it spends nearly no time at the 6psi level, to spoil the charge.....but now you've got to contend with the rage and chaos it's gonna bring to the stock internals when it hits peek blower RPM. But, if they were both pullied to see 6psi, and were made to compare to one and other again, then the 2.2 wouldn't bode nearly as well, since the 2.2 is now forced to saturate itself at a level that it was never meant to run at for long periods of time in the first place and now causes it and the volume of air it produces to heat up dramatically as a result. The 1.7 will perform better at such a low pulley speed, because it creates less heat at this level. Do you kinda understand what I'm saying?
Any way you slice it, the Build is probably going to nearly triple between the two. A member of this board "GIJoe" has the 2.2KB on his GT and if memory serves, he sank a pretty substantial amount of money into it, to finally get it running. There are so many little considerations that aren't initially though of, it doesn't take long to break the bank. The 1.7 will suport in the 500rwhp range with 14psi and bolt ons, which is pretty substantial when you really think about it. That's enough power to see high-10's and way more than 95% of us on this board are seeing!
forpit2000gt
Founding Member
I don't know how much you will race the car but even with 400 rwhp you will need some suspension mods that may make the car a little less fun to drive everyday if you are trying for 11s. 400 hp to the ground in a car you can drive anywhere that handles and feels like stock, except really fast is pretty sick. That can be a low 12 sec High 11 street car. I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun to have 600 one day or that the car won't be very streetable, just other parts that start needing upgraded too if you want it to hook and not tear up driveline. We all mant more but that is a lot of pwer.
Gearbanger 101 said:I'm not trying to imply that the 2.2 won't perform well at lower boost levels or engine RPM under any circumstances. Quite frankly, the 2.2 could be made to rock and roll passed the 1.7 all the way through until redline, but only if pullied for it.
I'll try to explain it......You can take a 2.2, pulley it for 18-20psi and have it make power like mad up past 6psi on it's way to peek blower RPM (in this case 18-20psi), since the step-up ratio for the 2.2 has now changed dramatically in it's favor with the smaller pulley and it spends nearly no time at the 6psi level, to spoil the charge.....but now you've got to contend with the rage and chaos it's gonna bring to the stock internals when it hits peek blower RPM. But, if they were both pullied to see 6psi, and were made to compare to one and other again, then the 2.2 wouldn't bode nearly as well, since the 2.2 is now forced to saturate itself at a level that it was never meant to run at for long periods of time in the first place and now causes it and the volume of air it produces to heat up dramatically as a result. The 1.7 will perform better at such a low pulley speed, because it creates less heat at this level. Do you kinda understand what I'm saying?
Any way you slice it, the Build is probably going to nearly triple between the two. A member of this board "GIJoe" has the 2.2KB on his GT and if memory serves, he sank a pretty substantial amount of money into it, to finally get it running. There are so many little considerations that aren't initially though of, it doesn't take long to break the bank. The 1.7 will suport in the 500rwhp range with 14psi and bolt ons, which is pretty substantial when you really think about it. That's enough power to see high-10's and way more than 95% of us on this board are seeing!
I think I see the plausibility of your argument. If the 1.7 and 2.2 are both run at 9 psi and 91 octane, then the 1.7 might have more torque in the lower rpm ranges, because the 1.7 is optimized to run at 9 psi and 91 octane, while the 2.2 is optimized to run at 15 or 20 psi and 100 octane.
forpit2000gt said:
Yeah, 400 rwph on 91 octane and 9 psi on the street, and 500 rwhp on 100 octane and 14 psi at the track, is a crazy amount of power.
I'm wondering if the 2.2 would get 400 rwhp on 91 octane and 9 psi on the street (with the same torque curve as the 1.7), and maybe 600 rwhp on 100 octane and 15-20 psi at the track, for roughly the same amount of money.
Assuming in both cases that you have a forged short block.
forpit2000gt
Founding Member
Example, 450 rwhp and sticky tires can get you to the high 11s, provided you get traction. To get traction you need front and rear suspension mods. At a point, with some of these mods you change the ride of your car to more track friendly than street friendly. Plus you are at a point where you need a roll cage. That alone makes the car a whole lot less friendly for a night on the town( with a female anyways) You will also need to start looking at the drivetrain. Stock will not take what you can do to it. really depends on what you expect out of the car. If you just want a dyno queen, forge the block and put a 2.2 on it and leave the comforts alone.
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