Lightning 351 Vs 93 Cobra Swap In Fox

90lxwhite · Nov 11, 2012

Hey fellas, what do you think would be a more enjoyable swap, a 351 from lightning or the 302 out of a 93 cobra? I found a cobra motor for around $1000 and a 95 lighning motor for $2995. Stock for stock I guess the cobra would be the better way to go huh since the price is lower it would give me some more wiggle room for upgrades like cam ect. But if I put the 351 in as is how do you think the performace would be, would I like it or do you think I'd find it lacking?

thanks

mike

FordRacing302 · Nov 11, 2012

351 would be better, but not for that price...Thats insane

and BTW, why do you want to swap your factory engine for another factory engine??? You'll get way more bang for your buck going with a aftermarket HCI combo

95Vert383AOD · Nov 11, 2012

Is there really a difference between the Lightening and reg 351? I got a 100k motor out of a 96 Van for $500 mostly complete. I believe its the 94-97 blocks that are roller.

3 Grand IS insane. For that price you could H/C/I a junkyard 351.

85_SS_302_Coupe · Nov 11, 2012

The difference is just that a '95 Lightning 351 is a roller cam ready block with GT40 iron heads...that's it. Find a roller 351, pull some heads off an Explorer, and there you have it. $3k is ridiculous for either of these engines unless they're brand new, but even then you could have a stroker for the same cash.

90lxwhite · Nov 11, 2012

FordRacing302 said:
351 would be better, but not for that price...Thats insane

and BTW, why do you want to swap your factory engine for another factory engine??? You'll get way more bang for your buck going with a aftermarket HCI combo

Not for $995 you won't, that's what the cobra motor is running and it has a three year warranty. Yeah I'm not gonna pay that $2995 for a used motor, if I was going to pay $3k I believe I'd get the x302 crate. A top end kit would be nice but I don't want to invest the 3 grand in my old tired motor. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get the response buy a used set of heads for like $600 ect but I haven't really seen many running in the price range. I also don't think I'd want to take the risk on used heads over the net with out taking them to the machine shop, and by the time they were machined and had new springs and such I would have as much money in them as a new set. But ok back to the orginal question: If I was to find the lightning 351 for a reasonable price do yall think the 240 horse and 340 ft lbs would be in my lil fox?

85_SS_302_Coupe · Nov 11, 2012

I think if you left it stock it would be a pig. You'll pick up a bit of power and a bit of torque but you'll also pick up a good bit of weight too. If you don't plan on stroking the 351, i'd probably go with the Cobra 302 also...easier to install, and you wouldn't have to spend money on 351 specific parts. I wouldn't bother with a 351 unless i was going to stroke it to 400+ci.

srtthis · Nov 12, 2012

85_SS_302_Coupe said:
The difference is just that a '95 Lightning 351 is a roller cam ready block with GT40 iron heads...that's it. Find a roller 351, pull some heads off an Explorer, and there you have it. $3k is ridiculous for either of these engines unless they're brand new, but even then you could have a stroker for the same cash.

to get the GT40 lower intake off the lightning your going to pay out the ass so id prob go with the lightning motor put some roller rockers in it and sell the intake and go carbed or keep the intake and have tmoss port it

Mustang5L5 · Nov 12, 2012

What's the deal with the Cobra motor? Is it a rebuild? Or just yanked out of the car as is with 100K miles on it?

'93 Cobra motors aren't really anything special. If the '93 Cobra engine is freshly rebuilt, or low mileage, then it would be worth it.

You are right though, buying all the parts separate might be close to the same price anyway. You'll need the intake, injectors+MAF+EEC, heads (PLUS any machine shope work unless you want to take risk), good springs, roller rockers and 65mm TB. The cobra cam is the same as the 93-95 t-bird 5.0 cam.

90lxwhite · Nov 12, 2012

Yeah it's yanked out and supposedly has 77k miles but who really knows, how would they know the fox odometers don't enough digits?? But anyway yeah I know they're aren't exactly a hot item but for the price I think it'd be hard to get gt40 heads and intake seperate. I know people say the're cheap but people are selling explorer intakes for $300 or so these days. Well ok just checked ebay $150-300 range but still. But really folks here's my perdicament; my ho motor runs, oh ok ish, but needs a rear main seal and it'd be around $600 to have it fixed and I'd still have the same ole ok sometimes motor..

Mustang5L5 · Nov 12, 2012

90lxwhite said:
Yeah it's yanked out and supposedly has 77k miles but who really knows, how would they know the fox odometers don't enough digits?? But anyway yeah I know they're aren't exactly a hot item but for the price I think it'd be hard to get gt40 heads and intake seperate. I know people say the're cheap but people are selling explorer intakes for $300 or so these days. Well ok just checked ebay $150-300 range but still. But really folks here's my perdicament; my ho motor runs, oh ok ish, but needs a rear main seal and it'd be around $600 to have it fixed and I'd still have the same ole ok sometimes motor..

Would you be swapping the motor youself?

$1K for a used 5.0 motor is pretty high though...even if it's a Cobra engine. My first question would be is it a real cobra engine? Those are pretty rare with only 5000 cobras made so i'd have to be certain first.

Explorer intakes can be had in the $75-100 range. Check CL. The prices tend to be a little less. I sold en explorer upper and lower for $100 on there no to long ago. I tried to get more but $100 was all i got for offers.

srtthis · Nov 12, 2012

yea i could build a GT40 explorer set up for around under a grand and

i paid 50 bucks for my intake and a local pick and pull. found the GT40 heads for 50 on CL from a crack head. (no joke had to meet the guy at his house since his PO was there)
you can find roller rockers for between 150-200 and a good short block for around 200. even if you paid 100 for the heads and 100 for the intake you have 400 left over for gaskets RTV and anything else you wanted.

ratio411 · Nov 12, 2012

Does the Lightning motor come complete, as in intake/distributor to oil pan?
The lower intake itself goes for 500-600 bux! Then the upper is nearly as valuable nowadays.
Being a "Lightning" engine does NOT garauntee a roller block either.
The Lighting was exactly half way through production before the roller 351 started rolling out.
So unless you know the engine is from a 94.5-up Lightning, you may not get a roller block.

IIRC the roller cam is the same cam that came in all Explorer V8s, as well as all 5.8 truck/van engines.
I know the Explorer and 5.8 truck van rollers use the same cam, I am pretty sure the Lightning rollers used it too.

ratio411 · Nov 12, 2012

Mustang5L5 said:
Explorer intakes can be had in the $75-100 range. Check CL. The prices tend to be a little less. I sold en explorer upper and lower for $100 on there no to long ago. I tried to get more but $100 was all i got for offers.

Agreed, almost... I have never paid more than 75 for a complete Exploder intake/TB setup.
I don't understand why anyone would. The local U-pull sells them for 25, and has a couple new ones in every week.
They are extremely common.

ratio411 · Nov 12, 2012

90lxwhite said:
Yeah it's yanked out and supposedly has 77k miles but who really knows, how would they know the fox odometers don't enough digits?? But anyway yeah I know they're aren't exactly a hot item but for the price I think it'd be hard to get gt40 heads and intake seperate. I know people say the're cheap but people are selling explorer intakes for $300 or so these days. Well ok just checked ebay $150-300 range but still. But really folks here's my perdicament; my ho motor runs, oh ok ish, but needs a rear main seal and it'd be around $600 to have it fixed and I'd still have the same ole ok sometimes motor..

Sorry for yet another post, but this just sunk in for me...

If it will cost you $600 to fix a rear main seal, then you need to be in another hobby!
Sorry to be so pointed, but a 20 dollar seal and a couple hours of work do not equal $600.
If that is something you cannot do yourself, then you don't need to be doing an engine swap.

Just sell your car to someone who can fix it up, then get in the market for a car that is turn key just how you want it, and buy it.

90lxwhite · Nov 13, 2012

ratio411 said:
Sorry for yet another post, but this just sunk in for me...

If it will cost you $600 to fix a rear main seal, then you need to be in another hobby!
Sorry to be so pointed, but a 20 dollar seal and a couple hours of work do not equal $600.
If that is something you cannot do yourself, then you don't need to be doing an engine swap.

Just sell your car to someone who can fix it up, then get in the market for a car that is turn key just how you want it, and buy it.

Well sir.. That $600 was to put in a torque converter and change rear main while it was apart. My current living situation doesn't really warrant doing a whole lot of wrenching. I'm living in a condo and don't want to be on my back in the parkinglot spilling trans fluid all over the place. I wouldn't do the engine swap there I'd prob go to my folks place and do it on a long weekend or pony up $1500 or so to have one put in. PS: yeah I'd sell er I suppose but I'd be taking too big of a loss and I wouldn't have the money to get anything else with. You wanna buy a 90 lx that leaks?

srtthis · Nov 13, 2012

if its 600 for labor alone to replace the torque converter and rear main seal its still to much should be about half that. and if its 600 including parts it not even close to enough. a good converter will run you near a grand. ive found a converter is as important to a car as the cam. to tight it leaves like a bitch to loose and you blow thought it out the back.

Mustang5L5 · Nov 13, 2012

I guess let me take a step back here and ask this.

What is your ultimate goes for the car, and what is it's current running situation and issues you want to address.

You can certainly build a GT-40 Cobra engine for less than $1K, but not everyone has the luxury of a garage to take their time and do a HCI upgrade, so mabe the extra $400 for a complete engine is worth it in your case if an engine swap is something you can realistically do.

ratio411 · Nov 13, 2012

90lxwhite said:
Well sir.. That $600 was to put in a torque converter and change rear main while it was apart. My current living situation doesn't really warrant doing a whole lot of wrenching. I'm living in a condo and don't want to be on my back in the parkinglot spilling trans fluid all over the place. I wouldn't do the engine swap there I'd prob go to my folks place and do it on a long weekend or pony up $1500 or so to have one put in. PS: yeah I'd sell er I suppose but I'd be taking too big of a loss and I wouldn't have the money to get anything else with. You wanna buy a 90 lx that leaks?

I apologize if I misunderstood.
You didn't mention any other parts, you just stated it was $600 to fix the rear main seal.
If there are other parts and labor involved, I had no idea from what you posted.

90lxwhite · Nov 13, 2012

Mustang5L5 said:
I guess let me take a step back here and ask this.

What is your ultimate goes for the car, and what is it's current running situation and issues you want to address.

You can certainly build a GT-40 Cobra engine for less than $1K, but not everyone has the luxury of a garage to take their time and do a HCI upgrade, so mabe the extra $400 for a complete engine is worth it in your case if an engine swap is something you can realistically do.

Well, ultimately I'd like a fun lil car to rip around town on the weekends in and maybe hit the drag strip once or twice and not get beat by a neon srt. (always makes me roll my eyes when I see someone making statements like, I wanna beat a honda or neon.. damned ole ford and their weenie 215 hp starting point) But anyways that's what I'm dreaming of. I'd like a 400 horsepower monster but it's not in the cards. One more question for ya; say a fella found a cobra motor out of a 95, would it be way more involved in getting it running in a fox? Oh and by the way I'm rollin' with an aod at the moment.

ratio411 · Nov 13, 2012

90lxwhite said:
...say a fella found a cobra motor out of a 95, would it be way more involved in getting it running in a fox? Oh and by the way I'm rollin' with an aod at the moment.

The long block would drop in place of yours.
The intake, distributor, wiring harness, and accessory drive are not really something you would bother to use as they are different. You could make them work, I suppose, but not worth it.

Sell the 95 upper intake, keep the lower on the engine, put an Explorer upper on it, and pocket the $200 difference in value. Make some money.

Lightning 351 Vs 93 Cobra Swap In Fox

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man

FordRacing302

95Vert383AOD

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end

ratio411

ratio411

ratio411

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man

srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

ratio411

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man

ratio411

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