Livernois Dynoes '05 Mustang GT

sweet~Low~93 · Oct 5, 2004

351CJ said:
I would like to belive your story, but customer 2005 Mustangs just started shipping today, Monday Oct 4.

So either the car at Milan is a test car for some publication, a factory car driven by a Ford employee or the story is BS.

yea it was Paul's High Performance .. getting some base line numbers.

nomuffler · Oct 5, 2004

Scot_94GT said:
I guesss I don't understand why you would have to "simulate" a car's wieght. it's not liek the car is floating in zero gravity. The wieght is on the wheels in either type of dyno.

Because when the car is on the dyno, the engine doesn't have to push the weight of the car. The wheels just freewheel on the rollers. Adding resitance is like using big pieces of rubber to simulate weight on workout machines. You're not actualy moving any weight, but the resistance makes it seem that way.

Roger Ramjet · Oct 5, 2004

What has not been mentioned here is HP correction factor. How the weather conditions are measured and what correction factor is used has a HUGE effect on the numbers. I always take my own weather station to dyno sessions to do my own corrections.

http://www.computechracing.com/drsystem.html

And from my experience, rear wheel HP in only down 11 to 12% from flywheel HP on manual transmission cars in the 1:1 gear. So, rwHP x 1.11 = engine HP.

GinoGT · Oct 6, 2004

Scot_94GT said:
I guesss I don't understand why you would have to "simulate" a car's wieght. it's not liek the car is floating in zero gravity. The wieght is on the wheels in either type of dyno.

The weight on the wheels doesn't mean anything. When a car is spinning on the dyno, all it has to do is turn the drums with its tires, it doesn't actually have to accelerate its 3000+ pound mass over the ground. Therefore, the dyno is loaded with resistance to simulate the load the car would be under when trying to push itself forward like when you're driving on the street.

A Mustang dyno is generally better for tuning, because you can specify the car's weight and dial in the same amount of resistance you would get in the real world, therefore more closely simulating the load, and being able to tune the ECU more accurately.

On the other hand, a dynojet only has a specific load (2200lbs I think...?). So the numbers are a bit higher on a dynojet, because the dyno isn't fighting against the car (the engine) as much.

87'GTstang said:
The mach 1 is not the same league as a GT is. That's like comparing a saleen to a cobra - sure it's about the same thing but they are different things in a big way. The mach 1 is a suped-up GT with a lot of revamped cues to give it the edge it should have for being what it is - a special novelty car.

I would compare the Mach 1 to a pre-03 Cobra long before a GT. Cobra engine, Cobra brakes, and before you say "but it has a solid rear axle", so did the 96-98 version of the Cobra.

M1Rifle · Oct 7, 2004

Jpjr said:
for 25k you could get a new cobra coupe and smoke every factory mustang on the road through 2006. it's a no-brainer

For $10K you can buy a motorcycle that will crush every production street car in the world in any test of acceleration or braking.

So why would you buy a 2004 Cobra? Maybe because you want a vehicle with different characteristics than a motorcycle, and maybe acceleration isn't everything?

(who has the "no brain" in this equation?)

351CJ · Oct 7, 2004

sweet~Low~93 said:
yea it was Paul's High Performance .. getting some base line numbers.

I hope you're for real. I'd say those #'s (13.30 @ 103 MPH ) are what I would expect for a 2005 GT, MTX with a VERY good driver and good track conditions.

GinoGT · Oct 7, 2004

351CJ said:
I hope you're for real. I'd say those #'s (13.30 @ 103 MPH ) are what I would expect for a 2005 GT, MTX with a VERY good driver and good track conditions.

I know magazine racing is bad, but even the "professionals" rolleyes: ) over at Motor Trend actually managed a low-mid 13 out of an automatic 05 GT.

Let one of the top Mustang drag racers get an 05 GT with a stick.....that thing is going to haul ass.

HoustonGT · Oct 8, 2004

Silverbull271 said:
I just purchased an '04 Mach 1 ( Screaming Yellow ) in May....
At first i didnt like the '05 so much....i still havent seen it in person but it is beginning to grow on me......I will purchase one, not until an '07 or '08 model...by then the car will be UNKINKED and there will be some sort of a nice SE...(Shelby,,Mach...Boss )....

Until then i absolutely LOVE my Mach...i took it out today and got on it ...i have it for 6 months and only have about 2k miles on the odometer

Man that car is FAST

Only 2k miles? Is that because your dad doesn't like you driving his Mach1 without a license? You must be 12 or something.
-Your posts are sooo damn retarded that i feel stupider reading them. Your Mach1 is not GOD and will most likely lose to a 05 5spd Gt with you driving.
Stop calling BS on people when their story obviously makes sense and someone else can back it up.

DBMSTNG · Oct 9, 2004

Silverbull271 said:
Come on guys!!!
A STOCK Mach 1 puts down 275-285 at the RW

You guys think that the '05 can run with a Mach or possibly beat it....Maybe after a couple of grand of MODS

Steeda says they can add 20rwhp to an 05 GT with nothing but a tune. does a tune cost a couple grand?

get off your high horse already. the Mach's are great. maybe the 05 GT can beat them, maybe it can't, but either way, get over it. you sound like such a whiny imbecile.

351CJ · Oct 9, 2004

It seems many people buy a vehicle and then want to belive "My car is the greatest car ever built. There will never be a better car, the new ones are all junk."

We've heard this all before from 5.0 owners, Camaro owners, 1960s' Mustang owners, etc. Now we're hearing it from some 03-04 Mach 1 owners.

The simple truth is that when the Mach 1 was introduced in 2003, it was one of the best Mustangs ever made. But time passes and new cars get better.

mach1dsg · Oct 10, 2004

351CJ said:
It seems many people buy a vehicle and then want to belive "My car is the greatest car ever built. There will never be a better car, the new ones are all junk."

We've heard this all before from 5.0 owners, Camaro owners, 1960s' Mustang owners, etc. Now we're hearing it from some 03-04 Mach 1 owners.

The simple truth is that when the Mach 1 was introduced in 2003, it was one of the best Mustangs ever made. But time passes and new cars get better.

dude, better doesn't mean faster
thinking it would be faster won't make it faster, but we would find out really soon....
i don't see why it should be faster, close HP numbers, but the mach is still making hp at 6100rpms, better Torque Curve on the 05 GT???, yes, but the lt1 is even higher and flatter, and still is a 14's car.for the people that swear torque is everything, look at the powerband of a stock lt1 and you would see what i'm tlking about..., close weight,same gears,same trannie,etc,etc.
unless that 3V engine is putting down more hp than a mach 1, (we don't know yet), it won't be faster than the "old" mach 1.
Note: since i don't know how fast the 05 GT really is, i could be speculating like you....would see who is the fastest N/A mustang ever pretty soon...

GinoGT · Oct 10, 2004

The 05 GT and 03/04 Mach 1 are going to be in the same ballpark when it comes to power output.

True, better doesn't just mean faster. It also refers to how much better the 05 is going to handle, and the overall quality of the car. Take a nice look over the exterior and interior....they're put together a hell of a lot better than ours.

Steeda says they can add 20rwhp to an 05 GT with nothing but a tune. does a tune cost a couple grand?

There's probably a LOT more to be said. I doubt they added 20RWHP at peak through a new tune. *Maybe* a 20RWHP difference at the most somewhere else in the powerband, but even that I really doubt.

Then again, companies say their cold air intakes are supposed to add power and we know that's

i4power · Oct 10, 2004

GinoGT said:
There's probably a LOT more to be said. I doubt they added 20RWHP at peak through a new tune. *Maybe* a 20RWHP difference at the most somewhere else in the powerband, but even that I really doubt.

Ford (or engineers in Ford) have said that the computer is the biggest limiter on the 05 'Stang. I believe that the Steeda tune will add 20 PEAK rwhp.

351CJ · Oct 10, 2004

mach1dsg said:
dude, better doesn't mean faster
thinking it would be faster won't make it faster, but we would find out really soon....
i don't see why it should be faster, close HP numbers, but the mach is still making hp at 6100rpms, better Torque Curve on the 05 GT???, yes, but the lt1 is even higher and flatter, and still is a 14's car.for the people that swear torque is everything, look at the powerband of a stock lt1 and you would see what i'm tlking about..., close weight,same gears,same trannie,etc,etc.
unless that 3V engine is putting down more hp than a mach 1, (we don't know yet), it won't be faster than the "old" mach 1.
Note: since i don't know how fast the 05 GT really is, i could be speculating like you....would see who is the fastest N/A mustang ever pretty soon...

Dude, you seem to be ignoring the fact that the 2005 has MUCH better F/R weight balance (53/47 vs 57/43) than your Mach 1. As I've said before, any idiot who has ever been to a drag strip knows the first thing you do to make your car go faster in the 1/4 is to move weight rearward. Add to it the new 3 link rear suspension and we have the simple fact that the '05 GT will hook up off the line way better than any SN-95 Mustang. That's why M/T got a 5.1 sec 0-60 for an '05 Auto. Yes the Mach has more top end, but the '05 GT will be very close in speed to the Mach 1.

However I could car less about a couple tenths in the 1/4 mile one way or the other. The important thing is that the '05 GT will be a far better overall car than the '03-04 Mach 1.

And thank you for answering "My car is still better" challenge.

GinoGT · Oct 10, 2004

i4power said:
Ford (or engineers in Ford) have said that the computer is the biggest limiter on the 05 'Stang. I believe that the Steeda tune will add 20 PEAK rwhp.

I still don't think 20RWHP is going to happen, I don't see how Ford would leave that much on the table over something as minor as the tune.

But I would absolutely love to be wrong right now.

TomServo92 · Oct 10, 2004

GinoGT said:
I still don't think 20RWHP is going to happen, I don't see how Ford would leave that much on the table over something as minor as the tune.

But I would absolutely love to be wrong right now.

Here's some food for thought: The 2004 Honda Accord V6 is tuned to make 240HP on premium but will run on regular. The computer detects the pinging caused by the lower octane and detunes the motor electronically. Do you know how much it makes in the detuned state? 220HP. 20HP less than in premium fuel mode. The tune everyone is talking about could very well be tuning the 4.6 for premium fuel which will allow you to run more aggressive timing etc. If it'll add 20HP to a Honda V6, I don't see why it couldn't add at least that much to the 4.6.

351CJ · Oct 10, 2004

GinoGT said:
I still don't think 20RWHP is going to happen, I don't see how Ford would leave that much on the table over something as minor as the tune.

But I would absolutely love to be wrong right now.

At one of the 2005 Mustang previews, a Ford engineer told me the same thing. I asked him several times how much HP it really had. He wouldn't answer but said the 300 HP rating was VERY conservative. I told him I had heard 280 HP at the rear wheels, to which he gave me a very startled look, but said nothing. I asked about tuning and modding it and he said that the HP was limited by the computer. He also said that you could bolt on different exhaust & CAI, the computer would respond and you would see some modest gains in HP To get more HP (and to put on a power adder) you would have to re-program the PCM.

As far as leaving some HP on the table, look at it this way. Ford decided to tune the 3V for 320 HP and rate it at 300 for the GT. This is a nice step up from SN-95.

For an SE model, say a Bullitt, all they need to do is change the software so it has 335 HP and rate it at 320 HP. But you may have to pay several thousand $$ for the SE Bullitt. That's smart marketing, exactly what the computer & chip companies have been doing for years. You create a premium model that people will pay more $$ for, but it doesn't cost you any extra to manufacture it.

GinoGT · Oct 10, 2004

We can tune our cars for premium too with a programmer, chip, or timing adjuster. It's good for a few horses, but nothing major.

Guess we'll wait and see.

SVTdriver · Oct 10, 2004

GinoGT said:
We can tune our cars for premium too with a programmer, chip, or timing adjuster. It's good for a few horses, but nothing major.

Guess we'll wait and see.

Do any of our cars have VVT? And throttle by wire?

DBMSTNG · Oct 10, 2004

SVTdriver said:
Do any of our cars have VVT? And throttle by wire?

exactley.

Ford doesn't tune for hp, they tune for gas mileage and pollution.

Livernois Dynoes '05 Mustang GT

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