Long tubes vs shorty headers

BradleyMustang3 · Jul 4, 2011

advantages vs. disadvantages

LarsD · Jul 4, 2011

LT's make more power and are louder. Downsides are less ground clearance, and some brands require you to pull the passenger side off to drop the trans.

AFAIK you gain very little hp with shorties. None the less I'm considering getting shorties and dumping my LT's cause I'm sick of the horrible ground clearance issues.

Stumbaugh · Jul 4, 2011

Shorties:

Advantages - none
Disadvantages - Requires the same effort as long tubes to install for no power gains

Long tubes:

Advantages - Lot's of power gians, better sounding exhaust
Disadvantages - ground clearance.

Deleted member 38176 · Jul 4, 2011

Stumbaugh said:
Shorties:

Advantages - none
Disadvantages - Requires the same effort as long tubes to install for no power gains

Long tubes:

Advantages - Lot's of power gians, better sounding exhaust
Disadvantages - ground clearance.

+1

This thread needs to be stickied and the above post should be the only post allowed. There's a thread on this topic every other week lol

sneaky98gt · Jul 4, 2011

Stumbaugh said:
Shorties:

Advantages - none
Disadvantages - Requires the same effort as long tubes to install for no power gains

Long tubes:

Advantages - Lot's of power gians, better sounding exhaust
Disadvantages - ground clearance.

Left a little bit out.

Shorties do sound better (than stock) and allow you to use the stock size midpipe. Unless I'm badly fooled, they don't require you to pull the motor/drop the front suspension to swap them in. Also, they are normally much cheaper than long tubes.

And there are definitely a couple more disadvantages to long tubes, with the install and cost being the biggest ones; they are a HUGE pain to install, and will normally run you upwards of $500 just for the parts. They also often don't allow you to drop the tranny or change the clutch without removing at least one side.

All of that being said, shorties are a complete waste of money unless you are only looking for a marginally better sounding exhaust. Either keep the stock manifolds, or spend $1000 for parts/install for long tubes and get 15 rwhp and a much better sounding car.

Flghtmstr1 · Jul 4, 2011

Get mid-lengths. They combine the power and sound advantages of long tubes with the ground clearance and general livability of shorties.

Stumbaugh · Jul 5, 2011

sneaky98gt said:
Left a little bit out.

Shorties do sound better (than stock) and allow you to use the stock size midpipe. Unless I'm badly fooled, they don't require you to pull the motor/drop the front suspension to swap them in. Also, they are normally much cheaper than long tubes.

And there are definitely a couple more disadvantages to long tubes, with the install and cost being the biggest ones; they are a HUGE pain to install, and will normally run you upwards of $500 just for the parts. They also often don't allow you to drop the tranny or change the clutch without removing at least one side.

All of that being said, shorties are a complete waste of money unless you are only looking for a marginally better sounding exhaust. Either keep the stock manifolds, or spend $1000 for parts/install for long tubes and get 15 rwhp and a much better sounding car.

Yeah I left out a lot, bu I didnt want to go into great detail. I hated my shorties with a pashion in my 99. Took the same amount of effort to install as long tubes and could not tell a difference what's so ever. Mine were BBK equal length headers.

40oz · Jul 5, 2011

What do the factory cast iron manifolds weigh vs shorties? Removing weight up front doesn't have to make power to be a benefit.

And long tubes require buying a new midpipe as well. So just for parts you are looking at long tubes + midpipe vs. shorties and using whatever you already have spent money on.

So shorties save front end weight, money, and don't affect ground clearance or changing the clutch but don't make as much power and are a PITA to install.

Long tubes add perhaps 20-30 rwhp NA and save front end weight but require buying a new mid pipe, add cost to changing clutch, reduce ground clearance, and are a PITA to install.

If it is solely a power mod, go long tubes. It's worth it. If it is an all around performance mod including cornering behavior, go shorties. And IMHO do either when you change the clutch.

Stumbaugh · Jul 5, 2011

40oz said:
What do the factory cast iron manifolds weigh vs shorties? Removing weight up front doesn't have to make power to be a benefit.

And long tubes require buying a new midpipe as well. So just for parts you are looking at long tubes + midpipe vs. shorties and using whatever you already have spent money on.

So shorties save front end weight, money, and don't affect ground clearance or changing the clutch but don't make as much power and are a PITA to install.

Long tubes add perhaps 20-30 rwhp NA and save front end weight but require buying a new mid pipe, add cost to changing clutch, reduce ground clearance, and are a PITA to install.

If it is solely a power mod, go long tubes. It's worth it. If it is an all around performance mod including cornering behavior, go shorties. And IMHO do either when you change the clutch.

Long tubes do not require a new mid pipe. They require you taking it to an exhaust shop and saying "hey, cut here, and weld this collector on".

Not all long tubes require you to remove them to change out the clutch. I'm pretty sure they are the more expensive ones that dont require you to, but I am not 100% sure which ones that is. But I do know 100% that not all of them require it.

Stumbaugh · Jul 5, 2011

I am getting ready to tear into my car. Installing some good ol cheapy Flowtech's. I will take some before and after pics of ground clearance issues and what not. I will be doing a clutch swap and installing a UPR tubular front end while it's tore apart. I will take the headers, bolt them up, and see if I can drop the transmission with them installed and report back.

Winters98GT · Jul 5, 2011

Stumbaugh said:
I am getting ready to tear into my car. Installing some good ol cheapy Flowtech's. I will take some before and after pics of ground clearance issues and what not. I will be doing a clutch swap and installing a UPR tubular front end while it's tore apart. I will take the headers, bolt them up, and see if I can drop the transmission with them installed and report back.

Make sure that you RTV the flowtechs where the headers hit the mid pipe if you are not welding at that location.

Timin · Jul 5, 2011

I have MAC Long Tubes on the car and I was able to remove the transmission without having to loosen/remove either Header. It was one of the more stressful jobs in my life, but it is possible to do this without doing anything with the headers first.

You have to spin/twist the transmission around to get it to squeeze in between the headers, of course you want to be careful that all the weight of the transmission is not causing damage to anything while working out the transmission.

I will more than likely try to loosen the passenger side header the next time I put in a new clutch, fyi.

mransr · Jul 5, 2011

the other issue with long tubes, that is an absolute deal breaker for a lot if us, is they are 100% illegal in California

007 · Jul 6, 2011

BBK "tuned length" shorties FTMFL. Worst mod I ever did. Total waste of time and money.

Stumbaugh · Jul 6, 2011

007 said:
BBK "tuned length" shorties FTMFL. Worst mod I ever did. Total waste of time and money.

Same ones I had on my 99. I could not agree more with this statement.

Tim2002GT · Jul 6, 2011

LT's will not add 20-30 rwhp NA. More like 5-15 rwhp. You will gain hp/tq under the curve, which is the biggest benefit however.

If you are a drag racer, you will see gains at the track of around 2-4 mph NA. Even more if you are spraying or boosting your car.

I also have Flowtech LT's and there is room to pull the tranny with them still installed. It is tight, but it isn't too bad.

Dark04GT · Jul 6, 2011

Agreed, you are looking at best case maybe ~20rwhp NA total for LT's & o/r midpipe over the stock stuff (that is just peak, other place along the curve will be a gain but less).

Also shorties can still give you a mild gain, but really as stated.... hardly worth the effort, we are talking 5rwhp at best NA (some report no gain). The best role for shorties is if you are making some kind of a custom turbo setup.

sandiegostang · Jul 6, 2011

There is no seat of pants difference with the addition of long tubes. Maybe 5 hp N/A and up to 15 hp blown. BTW not very hard to install at all. 2.5 hrs tops.

gmeach · Jul 7, 2011

mransr said:
the other issue with long tubes, that is an absolute deal breaker for a lot if us, is they are 100% illegal in California

everything is illegal in california...thank go for alaska!

LarsD · Jul 7, 2011

gmeach said:
everything is illegal in california...thank go for alaska!

Apparently everything in Cali causes cancer also.

Long tubes vs shorty headers

BradleyMustang3

Member

LarsD

Stumbaugh

Member

Deleted member 38176

sneaky98gt

Flghtmstr1

Member

Stumbaugh

Member

40oz

Member

Stumbaugh

Member

Stumbaugh

Member

Winters98GT

Whoop...whoop-whoop-whoop-whoop...GANGNAM STYLE!!!

Timin

mransr

007

Stumbaugh

Member

Tim2002GT

Dark04GT

sandiegostang

Member

gmeach

New Member

LarsD

Similar threads

Long tubes vs shorty headers

Member

Member

Deleted member 38176

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Whoop...whoop-whoop-whoop-whoop...GANGNAM STYLE!!!

Member

Member

New Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency