Look at these fast civics! Makes me want to sell the stang.

[Cman88]

well i'm glad you didnt take that too personal, I can see where you're coming from now. all of those 13 second times you see is due to driving, plain and simple, you can do a turbo and engine swap and run 14s if you cant get it to the ground wether its a big inch v8 or a turbo 4 cyl you'll get no where, thats why you see all of those supras with 600hp running 12s... as well as plenty of '03-'04 cobras. If you want to get into the 12s on all motor heads, intake and suspension is all i takes, like I said i ran a best of 13.7 with a 1.8 60 on stock h/c/i, and i'm far from being the best driver in the world. Now if you want to go beyond that and since you say you have above average technical ability you can do a junkyard turbo setup, pump gas on stock everything else should yield you about 350rwhp or so. thats good enough for deep 12s high 11s on street trim level with AC and decent driving, if you want to go all out you can turn up the boost, ( i wouldnt take it to more than 450rwhp on the stock block/internals) and run 10s with an Auto and built rear end.

turbomustangs.com is where you want to go if you want to go that route, you can build a nice kit for 2000-2500 with new components. you can make power and run good times with these cars, afterall you dont get to be credited with briging back the modern performance era by being a dog.

Thats where I am screwed. California emissions won't allow for a custom turbo kit. I'd be hit with all kinds of fines if I were to get caught also. Thats my main restriction with the Civic also. Its only running a TD04H-19T.Pretty damn small turbo. Anyways, I think I am going to search for some 3.73's and an E303. I have 1.7:1 roller rockers in the car now though... Do you think I will have clearance issues with the E303? I dont want to disassemble the engine to clay since I JUST replaced the head gaskets.

 

[90mustangGT]

I thought with the CA emmisions, you can't move the location of the stock cats, so as long as everything is in the same place, it shoulnd't matter. I have also heard that any modification of the engine you have to have the sticker with the CARB code. It's not really about emmisions, it's just CA's way of making money and oppressing anyone who tries to be independent.

 

[88 Fox GT]

Well, maybe they have problems with a fast revving engine with low gearing? I don't know. I have my car setup to use the check engine light as a shift light. Comes on about 500rpms before the rev limiter. Haven't had any problems. Kinda of handy especially at night I might add.

Well then they better put an automatic in it. I know the cars are very low geared and rev pretty fast, but if you are going to be running a manual tranny you better be good at shifting it or you're going to look like an asshat hitting the limiter in every gear. I can understand touching the limiter in first gear, but in 2nd and 3rd? Come on.

 

[Cman88]

Well then they better put an automatic in it. I know the cars are very low geared and rev pretty fast, but if you are going to be running a manual tranny you better be good at shifting it or you're going to look like an asshat hitting the limiter in every gear. I can understand touching the limiter in first gear, but in 2nd and 3rd? Come on.

Its not how I drive, so I have no explanation for you. Sorry. To classify everyone that drives an import as an asshat though isn't fair.

California law allows for basically anything to be put on the car so long as it has passed CARB certification. If the parts are hidden (like pistons), then its not an issue so long as the part doesn't drastically effect emissions to the point that you fail the sniffer/load test. A turbo kit would be a red flag and cause suspicion. If you get cought on the street with anything illegal, you get sent to the ref...at which point you get the complete inspection. Pain in the ass sometimes, not fun. I had to ref the GSR engine in the Civic since any cross platform swap also must be certified as well. Another reason why I like the single cam. Since its from a Civic to begin with, its not required to ref it. Just smog it like normal.

I know the off road H pipe on the 5.0 is rediculously illegal. Its a federal offense to remove/modify your catalytic convertors. Since I removed all 4, I am going straight to hell.

 

[DmnStr8]

The Mustang, in my eyes, should be in the 12's if I am going to do something along these lines. If I knew I could reach 12's that easy, I'd be out there now doing stuff.....

I just wanted to point out that there is a guy on this board who has gotten 12s with a basically stock car. Suspension, tires, and just a valve job on the stock heads and a cobra intake I believe.

 

[Cman88]

I just wanted to point out that there is a guy on this board who has gotten 12s with a basically stock car. Suspension, tires, and just a valve job on the stock heads and a cobra intake I believe.

I have heard of a few people getting these times. Perhaps they are healthy engines? Well taken care of? Who knows. I know this 5.0 I have in the driveway can't be a 12 second ride as it sits. I had the heads checked when I did the headgaskets. They held pressure just fine. Didn't want to dump money into a valvejob when I could save up for a new/good set of heads, you know?

 

[MarSaleenMustan]

Thats where I am screwed. California emissions won't allow for a custom turbo kit. I'd be hit with all kinds of fines if I were to get caught also. Thats my main restriction with the Civic also. Its only running a TD04H-19T.Pretty damn small turbo. Anyways, I think I am going to search for some 3.73's and an E303. I have 1.7:1 roller rockers in the car now though... Do you think I will have clearance issues with the E303? I dont want to disassemble the engine to clay since I JUST replaced the head gaskets.

as far as California emissions go you already have an offroad H pipe on, so you can get around that. i've been driving my car for over two years now with no smog pump and a mac prochamber(no cats) and have had no problems. a cop wont pull you over AND inspect your car unless A its way too loud, or B you're racing. Theres ways around the emissions, if youre "too ethical" then maybe thats not the way to go, but if you dont think its a crime to do a home made turbo and have a way to get it smoged then go for it :wink:

as far as the cam goes I wouldnt even waste the time/money to put that in the gains on an otherwise stock engine would be minimal at best. the only way i'd put that cam in is if it was free AND i had the motor out of the car and I was tearing it down. the 1:7 rockers I would defenetly do and with the stock cam you should have no V/P clearance issues. they're easy to do and you gain just bout as much as the cam you mentioned. Its things like these that you'll find is why some guys with a long list of parts in their sigs cant break out of the 13s, they get all kinds of hundred dollar boltons that amount to 20-30hp at best and end up getting discouraged. If i were you and you're serious about making good power, you have a couple of choices, the first question is how much power you're looking to make. if 300rwhp is your goal then a nice heads/cam/intake package will do the trick, that should run you about 2500 or so including gaskets/rockets/timing chain, gear and maybe another small item or two and since you can install it your self you'll save on installation. It will be reliable since its NA power.
if you're looking for 400rwhp or so then you can either go with an NA stroker 331/347 OR just do a turbocharger. The turbo by it self on an otherwise stock long block will yield about 350 rwhp tuned on pump gas, 400+ with race fuel, dont worry too much about the internals, most late 80s up to march of 92 mustang 5.0L motors came with forged pistons/rods. The weak link is the block. Which leads me to the last option, if you're looking for 500rwhp+ then I'd go with a 351 based motor, NA 408 stroker will yield you in the high 400rwhp range with the right heas/intake, now if you decide to do a power adder on top of that you could have a nice relatively reliable 600-700 rwhp on pump gas low boost. As with ANY car it comes down to how much money you're willing to spend. if you're on a budget the home made turbo makes the most sence for it can be all completed for about 3k including tune and you'll get about 350rwhp out of that combo on the stock motor, or you can go with some serious money and 500+ hp are there on a reliable none radical setup. Hope this helps.

 

[Cman88]

as far as California emissions go you already have an offroad H pipe on, so you can get around that. i've been driving my car for over two years now with no smog pump and a mac prochamber(no cats) and have had no problems. a cop wont pull you over AND inspect your car unless A its way too loud, or B you're racing. Theres ways around the emissions, if youre "too ethical" then maybe thats not the way to go, but if you dont think its a crime to do a home made turbo and have a way to get it smoged then go for it :wink:

as far as the cam goes I wouldnt even waste the time/money to put that in the gains on an otherwise stock engine would be minimal at best. the only way i'd put that cam in is if it was free AND i had the motor out of the car and I was tearing it down. the 1:7 rockers I would defenetly do and with the stock cam you should have no V/P clearance issues. they're easy to do and you gain just bout as much as the cam you mentioned. Its things like these that you'll find is why some guys with a long list of parts in their sigs cant break out of the 13s, they get all kinds of hundred dollar boltons that amount to 20-30hp at best and end up getting discouraged. If i were you and you're serious about making good power, you have a couple of choices, the first question is how much power you're looking to make. if 300rwhp is your goal then a nice heads/cam/intake package will do the trick, that should run you about 2500 or so including gaskets/rockets/timing chain, gear and maybe another small item or two and since you can install it your self you'll save on installation. It will be reliable since its NA power.
if you're looking for 400rwhp or so then you can either go with an NA stroker 331/347 OR just do a turbocharger. The turbo by it self on an otherwise stock long block will yield about 350 rwhp tuned on pump gas, 400+ with race fuel, dont worry too much about the internals, most late 80s up to march of 92 mustang 5.0L motors came with forged pistons/rods. The weak link is the block. Which leads me to the last option, if you're looking for 500rwhp+ then I'd go with a 351 based motor, NA 408 stroker will yield you in the high 400rwhp range with the right heas/intake, now if you decide to do a power adder on top of that you could have a nice relatively reliable 600-700 rwhp on pump gas low boost. As with ANY car it comes down to how much money you're willing to spend. if you're on a budget the home made turbo makes the most sence for it can be all completed for about 3k including tune and you'll get about 350rwhp out of that combo on the stock motor, or you can go with some serious money and 500+ hp are there on a reliable none radical setup. Hope this helps.

Funny you say that. I saw a dyno of a completely stock 5.0 gain 51rwhp with no other mods other then the cam. It was an E303 also, and this was through an auto.

 

[poneypower89]

Funny you say that. I saw a dyno of a completely stock 5.0 gain 51rwhp with no other mods other then the cam. It was an E303 also, and this was through an auto.

5.0 magazine did the Dyno test deal on a cam swap in a stocker.. they gained just 18 hp...

Do you have references (proof) of this 51hp gain? Just curious, Im not arguing with you.

 

[Boss 351]

I'm even suprised at the 18hp gain!

 

[Strype]

I'm even suprised at the 18hp gain!

I had always heard about 5-10hp. That's surprizing

 

[Boss 351]

I guess I should have done the cam change, I had the freaking timing cover off last weekend!

 

[Cman88]

5.0 magazine did the Dyno test deal on a cam swap in a stocker.. they gained just 18 hp...

Do you have references (proof) of this 51hp gain? Just curious, Im not arguing with you.

I must have been smoking crack or something. The 5.0 magazine article LOOKS like the one I was reading, but clearly doesn't show any 51hp gain. Hmmm, I'll keep looking. I swear I saw it somewhere. Could have been something else such as with intake manifolds and crap like that.

 

[90mustangGT]

It talked about a 18hp gain, but did it mention the 36tq loss? Cams in stock motors just tend to reduce drivability and low end with little to no gain up top. The stock cam should probally be the last thing to change in the H/C/I package. The stock cam is a very good match for the 5.0.

People go all wrong about modding cars. Another thing people do is putting 1 5/8ths shorties on stock heads with a stock 4 cat H-pipe. The biggest restriction in the exaust system is in the exaust port of the head, all the is really done by larger exaust is unbalancing the exaust system.

 

[MarSaleenMustan]

Funny you say that. I saw a dyno of a completely stock 5.0 gain 51rwhp with no other mods other then the cam. It was an E303 also, and this was through an auto.

as others have pointed out they're generally worth 5-10hp on an otherwise stock engine, and also as has been pointed out the stock cam is decent for even heads/intake with some 1:7 rockers. I'm defenetly not a Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords tech editor or anything of that sort, but from what I do know is what I typed on my previous post. Thats how i'd go about it. I'd skip the small bolt ons and go for the big stuff, either h/c/i or forced induction or maybe even an engine swap. I forgot to mention another inexpensive alternative, you can get yourself a decent used SC for these cars for about 2K or so, get some better heads/intake and with 10psi on pump gas you're looking at around the 400hp mark too, all for about 3500-4000.

Another thing to note if your shortblock has seen better days you can do a complete rebuild using the stock pistons(provided theres no ridge built up on the top part of the cylinder walls to warrant boring) and connecting rods for about 400 dollars including moly rings(about 100 dollars), bearings all around and all the gaskets you'll need. I did this my self on my current motor so I know it can be done. you mentioned about getting SOHC civic motors for cheap, I got that motor I rebuilt out of a wrecked stock Automatic lx from the local junkyard on a half off day for 125 and included the heads and intake. so basically for about 500 i was able to have a freshened up 5.0L which is ready for boost(10psi will hold no problem as long as its tuned) These motors are plentiful which equals cheap. I sold the long block out of my car when i replaced it with the rebuilt one for 100 bucks. Thats more or less what they go for... around CA anyways. Again I cant stress enough how easy/inexpensive to work on these motors, i'm not ASE certified, I just have "magazine/internet knoledge" but I did it, it shows how simple the motors are.