Looking for 4.6L Mustang vs C6 Z06 Video

02LaserRed2V · Aug 2, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
Ever try to drag race 50 cars lined up one in front of the other and side by side all at the same time? When was the last time you saw horse racing go from a roll?

Funny Car vs. Space shuttle....NASCAR!?!?!? Laser, I usually have nothing but respect for your opinion, but these points you're making just get weaker and weaker dude. The only thing roll racing proves is that it takes no skill in order to do it.

I share a simple analogy so you can understand my POV but I think your stubborness is clouding you. I have respect for your opinions. BUT when you try to shove it down my throat as a fact, it starts to get a bit irritating. A couple other members already added their 2 cents on what they THINK roll racing proves, and I agree with them. You disagree, which is fine. But then you continue on rambling about street racing and drifting, which has absolutely nothing to do with what anyone is trying to prove. I'm sorry but you're not right. Opinions can never be facts.

SamMan · Aug 3, 2006

I see both sides of the argument. When racing from a roll it gives the car with relatively more HP per TRQ the advantage. From a stop the car with high TRQ per HP will pull harder. One is "faster" but the other is "quicker". Of course other things like weight and skill need to be factored in but you get the idea. That being the case I will take head snapping TRQ every time over top speed HP.

TRQ > HP

"quicker" > "faster"

Uncle Meat · Aug 3, 2006

I'm going to have to agree with Gearbanger on this one. Roll racing takes minimal skill and proves little. The winner of a roll race can reliably be determined by simple mathematics for the most part. Take a cars power to weight ratio and divide it by the rear end gear ratio, then divide the result by the drag coefficient and you can pick the winner of every race. I mean beep your horn three times, mat the throttle, and if you're driving a manual... shift as required.

U.M.

CanadaStang · Aug 3, 2006

I'm also going to have to agree with the Gearbanger.

DocG · Aug 3, 2006

Ummm....since when do the results of a race equate to the faster and/or quicker car?

While we have used various forms of racing to determine what car is "better" for a long long time, anyone with some reasoning and logic abilities know there are flaws in any race.

I think the bias in this forum is that we are mustang fans, and mustangs are good at 1/4 mile runs....so we tend to think that's the best measure of what's faster. Honestly, I'd rather have the car with the best 0-100-0...don't know about you, but that's the range 99.9% of my driving falls into.

And finally, the SRT4 will whomp all over every car in the whole wide world!

akb93 · Aug 9, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
We're talking Ford GT....not Mustang GT. And no....a C6 Z06 will not waste a Ford GT. You want proof, check out every head to head comparison ever done between the two.

Sorry, i misread, i thought you guys were talking about a mustang gt

hotmustang331 · Aug 9, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
Agreed 100%!!!

No offence intended Lazer, but perhaps it is you that hasn’t read all of the posts on the page!?!

Going from a dig has always been the staple of both a cars performance and driver skill.

Ok, here is what is detrimental to your argument. We are conserned about which car is faster...not which driver is better . Stop racing shows more driver skill and is more diffacult to execute correctly....roll racing requires less skill (just go WOT and shift) and shows the cars performance more. Now slicks at the track with the SAME driver, going from a STOP WOULD show true performance...but I dont see that as possable on the street for 2 peoples cars. Whos going to let some guy throw slicks on their cars and powershift their cars down the track just so one guy can say "hey my cars faster" ?

EDIT: and let me put this into range here. Ok, you have a C6 Z06 and I have a Ford GT...we WANT to find out which car is faster. Tracks are closed for the season...what you going to do? Neither car will hook off the line very well...if we go from a stop how can you be sure which car is faster? Maybe my tires hook better, or maybe you get a heavy foot and cant keep the tires on... HOW DO WE KNOW WHICH IS FASTER?
A. Not everyone knows their cars and can take off well...
B. Not all tires are even

the only logical answer is to get at a speed where traction is not an issue and you can both be in a gear that will pull out a ways.
Just shift 1 time.
A. This way pretty much rules out wheel spin
B. this way pretty much elimitates driver error.

Uncle Meat · Aug 10, 2006

There's a difference between "faster" & "quicker" and the type of race to determine which is which would also be different.

U.M

Gearbanger 101 · Aug 10, 2006

hotmustang331 said:
Ok, here is what is detrimental to your argument. We are conserned about which car is faster...not which driver is better . Stop racing shows more driver skill and is more diffacult to execute correctly....roll racing requires less skill (just go WOT and shift) and shows the cars performance more. Now slicks at the track with the SAME driver, going from a STOP WOULD show true performance...but I dont see that as possable on the street for 2 peoples cars. Whos going to let some guy throw slicks on their cars and powershift their cars down the track just so one guy can say "hey my cars faster" ?

EDIT: and let me put this into range here. Ok, you have a C6 Z06 and I have a Ford GT...we WANT to find out which car is faster. Tracks are closed for the season...what you going to do? Neither car will hook off the line very well...if we go from a stop how can you be sure which car is faster? Maybe my tires hook better, or maybe you get a heavy foot and cant keep the tires on... HOW DO WE KNOW WHICH IS FASTER?
A. Not everyone knows their cars and can take off well...
B. Not all tires are even

the only logical answer is to get at a speed where traction is not an issue and you can both be in a gear that will pull out a ways.
Just shift 1 time.
A. This way pretty much rules out wheel spin
B. this way pretty much elimitates driver error.

Alright...now here is what is detrimental to your argument. Say you take these cars and run them from a roll. Who decides what roll speed to run at? A 2nd gear 40-roll (or whatever) may put one car right into its sweet spot, where it may put the other above or below its peek torque/horsepower figures. You've got to keep in mind. These cars are geared differently to pull different weights, push past different drag coefficients and to perform at different levels and different top speeds. The Blown GT’s power curve is much different than the N/A Z06’s. Like all Positive Displacement blown cars, it makes ungodly torque from a very low RPM and softens as the RPM climbs, so wouldn't it make sense for Ford to gear the car accordingly? Why do you think the GT runs at over 210mph? Sure if you wanted to make things totally equal, you could gear the cars the exact same, but then what? You get a factory 10-second GT that’s nearly unmanageable to drive in a strait line on anything but slicks, but cranks out a 198mph top speed to match the Vette, or you get a Z06 geared to run the same (or as close as it’s power level allows) 214mph top speed as the GT, but won’t run better than mid/high-12’s because of it’s now running far too tall gearing. Doing this would take away from the balance of either car, which is one of the very many things they’re both praised for.

So, going from a roll which puts the GT at an initial disadvantage at one RPM may give the win to the Vette and visa versa. So what....does that prove that the Vette is a faster car? We already know that it's not and the GT has a significant horsepower and top speed advantage over the Vette. So why shut down when roll racing at all....why not run them right on through until they quit pulling? Wouldn't that prove in fact "which is the faster car"?

You're right.....drivers skill “could” hand an advantage over to one driver over another when going from a dead stop, but with equal drivers and conditions, this advantage is all but gone and it’s up to the sheer power and balance of the vehicle to prove the victor. When roll racing, the advantage is going to go the guy that chooses to race from an RPM and speed where his car is going to perform at its best. Fact of the matter is, is that when going head to head, if he’s smart, the Vette owner is going to want to go from a roll every single time! This is where he’s going to have the best chance of winning. Let’s face it, as good as the Z06 is from a dead stop, the power advantage of the blown 5.4L in the Ford GT just makes it better. Whether it be a quarter mile or 2-mile race. The only way a victor can truly be determined between the two is to run them from start to stop.

.....Utah Salt Flats anyone?

Uncle Meat · Aug 10, 2006

If you want to find out which car is faster you line them up side by side at the Bonneville salt flats and let them go WOT. The Ford GT will win because it has a higher top speed so it is technically faster.

If you want to find out which car is quicker then you need to run them on a drag strip with the same conditions and same driver to reduce the variables. Again the GT will win this contest too with all other variables being identical.

U.M.

CanadaStang · Aug 10, 2006

Back when my Stang was stock except for the PI headswap, I used to race my brothers auto LT1 Z-28 all the time. From a dead stop he could always beat me and at the track he would not only have better times but higher trap speeds, I could pull him off the line but by the 8th he'd be cruising past. Oddly though, if we raced from a roll I could jump 1/2 a car ahead immediatly and then it would stay that way for a long long time till I had to shift into 5th, then he'd start to pull away.
Racing from a dead stop is the only true measuring stick, it's consistant and it's more of a real world comparison, it's also the standard every auto testing company uses.

stangGT97 · Aug 10, 2006

why are we talking about street racing anyway? Find someone who can drive the hell out of both the GT and the Z06, and let him bang gears at the track. Then you have a test with credible results. Same driver, same course, just one car vs. the other

CanadaStang · Aug 10, 2006

stangGT97 said:
why are we talking about street racing anyway? Find someone who can drive the hell out of both the GT and the Z06, and let him bang gears at the track. Then you have a test with credible results. Same driver, same course, just one car vs. the other

I have the driver if you can come up with the cars!!

stangGT97 · Aug 10, 2006

CanadaStang said:
I have the driver if you can come up with the cars!!

sure, I just gotta find someone to drive the vette for me... I'll let you know when you can expect us to arrive

CanadaStang · Aug 10, 2006

stangGT97 said:
sure, I just gotta find someone to drive the vette for me... I'll let you know when you can expect us to arrive

hotmustang331 · Aug 10, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
Alright...now here is what is detrimental to your argument. Say you take these cars and run them from a roll. Who decides what roll speed to run at? A 2nd gear 40-roll (or whatever) may put one car right into its sweet spot, where it may put the other above or below its peek torque/horsepower figures. You've got to keep in mind. These cars are geared differently to pull different weights, push past different drag coefficients and to perform at different levels and different top speeds. The Blown GT’s power curve is much different than the N/A Z06’s. Like all Positive Displacement blown cars, it makes ungodly torque from a very low RPM and softens as the RPM climbs, so wouldn't it make sense for Ford to gear the car accordingly? Why do you think the GT runs at over 210mph? Sure if you wanted to make things totally equal, you could gear the cars the exact same, but then what? You get a factory 10-second GT that’s nearly unmanageable to drive in a strait line on anything but slicks, but cranks out a 198mph top speed to match the Vette, or you get a Z06 geared to run the same (or as close as it’s power level allows) 214mph top speed as the GT, but won’t run better than mid/high-12’s because of it’s now running far too tall gearing. Doing this would take away from the balance of either car, which is one of the very many things they’re both praised for.

So, going from a roll which puts the GT at an initial disadvantage at one RPM may give the win to the Vette and visa versa. So what....does that prove that the Vette is a faster car? We already know that it's not and the GT has a significant horsepower and top speed advantage over the Vette. So why shut down when roll racing at all....why not run them right on through until they quit pulling? Wouldn't that prove in fact "which is the faster car"?

You're right.....drivers skill “could” hand an advantage over to one driver over another when going from a dead stop, but with equal drivers and conditions, this advantage is all but gone and it’s up to the sheer power and balance of the vehicle to prove the victor. When roll racing, the advantage is going to go the guy that chooses to race from an RPM and speed where his car is going to perform at its best. Fact of the matter is, is that when going head to head, if he’s smart, the Vette owner is going to want to go from a roll every single time! This is where he’s going to have the best chance of winning. Let’s face it, as good as the Z06 is from a dead stop, the power advantage of the blown 5.4L in the Ford GT just makes it better. Whether it be a quarter mile or 2-mile race. The only way a victor can truly be determined between the two is to run them from start to stop.

.....Utah Salt Flats anyone?

TRUE! Each way has their advantages and disadvantage....why not revert to my original statement then (since its basically an even draw) and do BOTH and see what happens .

Im not so sure about the advantage going to the GT from a stop due to its lowend torque while on the street....neither of them can get traction anyways. if you can spin your tires at a given speed, all the extra torque in the world wouldnt help you any.

Lyncher · Aug 10, 2006

hotmustang331 said:
Thats FWD to RWD...there is a distinct advantage to the RWD....this is RWD vs RWD. Ill stand by my statement that stop racing gives a slower car a better chance, and thats the only reason people like to go from a stop....because they know they dont have the power to take the car on the highway.

IMO you should do both...if you will ONLY do one or the other, that just shows that you scared.

Let me give you an example here of why its best not to go from a stop with high HP cars.

Ok friend of mine at work has a 400RWHP C5 vette (2000)..I have a 292RWHP GT. Well we raced from a stop a few months ago after work, and I just drove away from him. Even ran from a slow roll and I won haha. WHY you might ask? Because he had crazy wheel spin.
Now which car is FASTER here? If we were standing around and some guy in a viper pulls up and asks "who has the fastest car?" ...would it be right for me to say "mine"?
HECK NO...his car is faster. Just because you outdrive someone, that DOESNT make your car faster. From a upperend run really tells the tell of which car ill pull the other. And hey if the cobra guy makes excuses "my gearing isnt as good....my eaton doesnt pull good up top....I think my EEC has a virus" Thats just tough IMO . Run what your brung....stop shows driver, roll shows powa. If you agree to either, dont make excuses, just deal with life (remember, this is on the street...lowend torque of the eaton isnt much good as both cars have plety of power to spin their tires from low speeds....its all about driver control)

I disagree in one respect, A high HP car could be a built BBF with all its power down low, this car would do 100X better from a stop then from a roll, but you could have a turbo high revving engine which would most likely perform better from a roll because of the rpm range, so I think your comment doesnt completely make sense. I also think that from a stop is the right way to race, thats just my opinion, whens the last time you saw roll racing on espn? Just my point of view

Gearbanger 101 · Aug 10, 2006

hotmustang331 said:
TRUE! Each way has their advantages and disadvantage....why not revert to my original statement then (since its basically an even draw) and do BOTH and see what happens

....but we already know what happens.
http://forums.stangnet.com/showpost.php?p=6332322&postcount=110

hotmustang331 said:
Im not so sure about the advantage going to the GT from a stop due to its lowend torque while on the street....neither of them can get traction anyways. if you can spin your tires at a given speed, all the extra torque in the world wouldnt help you any.

You're forgetting where the majority of the Ford GT's weight is located.....right over the rear axles. Yes, it's breaking loose, but it's still hooking better than the Vette....you just don't as easily notice it because it's putting that much more torque to the wheels. The GT has superior traction and weight distribution based on design alone. Even with nearly 500rwhp and like amounts of torque on tap at such a low RPM, there's still a point with the GT that it's going retrieve it's street manners....and this is where all that torque starts doing the talking. That's also why in all head to head tests, you consistently see the GT outrunning the Z06 by .3-.5 and 4-7mph.

hotmustang331 · Aug 10, 2006

Im not taking sides with the vette if thats what your thinking...I am going off of a general assumption that was made that the GTs torque advantage would help it more than the Z06. True the GT has more ability to hook, I should have taken that into consideration when I said that....I was trying to assume equal traction and just was trying to make the point that "if your spinning more power isnt going to help", but got carried away before I thought about how the GT was setup. Heh, I just worked 12 hours...so I guess I dont doubt that LOL.

Anyways I PERSONALLY thing from a stop at the strip, the GT would destroy the vette. Even from a 55MPH roll (both cars in 2nd) the GT would drive away from the Z06...the GTs broad torque curve can give it a little head room on where it starts the race. Z06 is more picky. FORD GT FTW!

Looking for 4.6L Mustang vs C6 Z06 Video

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