Massive driveability issues. Unexplainable conditions. Please help..

281pony

Active Member
Aug 31, 2003
2,681
2
46
Oly, WA
i'll try to keep this simple so it makes more sense. this started leaving my dyno tune appointment. car dyno'd, drove great off the dyno. i headed home, 15 miles in the car does 2 big surges like i let off the gas and got back on. instantly after, my pedal becomes irresponsive. i look at my wideband and it is pegged out RICH. i push in the clutch and the car is dead. won't re-start for 10-15 minutes. the dyno shop comes to help me since i just left, we replace a TFI module and i drive it the next 75 miles problem FREE.

next time i drive the car, i'm going to work. i do not feel a miss, but i see my wideband peg out full rich as im coasting to my work driveway. coming home that afternoon, i get one miss and then a pegged rich wideband. i notice that i can duplicate this RICH condition, if i hit bumps with the passenger side tire.

the car will just DUMP fuel and not rev when it goes rich over the bumps. so with that info, i start hunting and looking for a solution. let me update with what it does NOW. the rich condition has disappeared, even when i hit bumps. the car will drive around fine, but if i go to get on the gas, it has no power and backfires. it is running LEAN now.

i have done the following; 2 different known working distributors, my original maf and another test maf which came up faulty instantly via CEL, gone over wiring to; maf, ecu, distributor for cracks/breaks, checked timing, checked fpr diaphram, swapped out 2 different ecu's with and without my sct chip, gone over ANYTHING i can think of.

now the car runs lean. i have tried unplugging things to isolate the maf, different ecu, ect. i am out of idea's here, desperation mode. what do you think could cause huge issues like this?

i have NO CODES. car is a h/c/i car, vortech si trim, 42's, pro-m maf, manual, a9l and a9p ecu's, sct chip written for the a9l ecu. dyno tune went great. this started as a miss, then went to a rich condition, now its another issue. :shrug:
 
No 11 code? The 11 code is computer passed its internal self test. If you don't get an 11, you have computer or wiring problems.
 
should have said i get egr codes (my egr is deleted, no suprise there). then it finishes with code 10. i spent more time with it tonight. cocluded;

car ran with normal a/f's but no power/backfiring with MAF unplugged, maf plugged in, with each ecu, with my a9l ecu AND chip. runs identical with each option in any combination.

friend came over and we tried a bunch of tests. i have some other conclusions;

my o2 sensor is not reading inline with my wideband gauge. he said it is reading really rich and then bounces to really lean sometimes. so possibly o2 sensors? we had a voltmeter to use and teed off the pin on the ecu harness.

the car does NOT make any boost even at WOT and into the rpm's where it should make boost. we chased the intake and everything else for vacuum leaks with zero findings.

we also checked my maf voltage for voltage increase. it is a smooth increase in voltage as it should be. we were just unsure exactly what voltage it should read under what circumstance. however, we logged my maf voltage with my dyno tune and it was spot on the day this all started.

my friend asked me to get the following;

a method for testing o2 sensors?
a full pinout for the ecu harness

anything else you can make of this? so as it stands, it appears my o2 sensors are bad.. i dont know anymore really, i'm trying to stay motivated but i'm getting really discouraged with this pos.
 
Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Testing the O2 sensors 94-95 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a red/black wire) and 27 (RH O2 with a gray/lt blue wire). Use pin 32 (gray/red wire) to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts



Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Wiring & Engine Info Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif
 
got over 20 hours into this now, just driving down the road and i get this. people wonder why i constantly bash fords horrid electrical systems :mad:

we checked;
tps
maf
map
vacuum leaks
timing
ecu ground
o2 sensors
o2 sensor harness

everything is working and within spec. we ran codes both with ignition on, engine off and engine running. no codes whatsoever that aren't related to my egr.

the car now has 99% of the time an acceptable air/fuel ratio, but it has no power at all when you go past 1/8 throttle. it's just a dog.. a few times out of nowhere the car has just died. then my wideband flashes back up pegged out rich.

i am so beyond confused, i dont know what to do anymore. what do you think? we did all these test with both ecu, and with/without the chip in my a9l.
 
You do come across the weirdest issues....

Have you checked to make sure the car is grounded, just another thing to check just to make sure you dont have a voltage leak and a searching ground.

Ive never seen a car add that much fuel with all the above checking out.
 
Yep went over block and o2 grounds also. The wideband now is saying the a/f is good when driving. It just has no power at all.

I guess next and final step is new plugs, try a third distributor or? We are checking all these at the ecu and even while driving. He used a multimeter and an osciliscope? So we could actually watch the signal.

So depressing...