Me thinks my fuel pump is going out!

will_95gt · Feb 28, 2009

Howdy everyone....

So, yesterday I was cruising across Texas down I-10 (going about 80 mph) and without any notice, or at least none that I could recognize with the music cranked so loud, my car dies.

I tried to start the car while I'm still coasting and apparently that doesn't work so I continued coasting to the shoulder, turned the key back to off, and waited about ten minutes.

After ten or so minutes the car still wouldn't run. It would start up, kick and buck and hesitate and whimper for around 30 seconds before dying. So, I grabbed my guitar from the back seat and strapped it to my back and started walking to find the next mile marker so I know exactly where I am and can call a toe truck. (Btw, yesterday happened to be the first really hot day we've had in a while so walking down the interstate in the middle of nowhere sucked immensely...ppl honked at me )

It took me about 15 minutes to walk to the mile marker and make a few phone calls and once I get back to the car I decided to try starting it up again and WHAM the baby started up with no hesitation and began idling perfectly.

I let it run for a minute or so before deciding to try to get her back onto the road and once I did she ran perfectly for the remaining 100 miles or so. Now I've heard that fuel pumps can go out like that and then start back up after a half hour or so without giving you any problems, even for a few days, before acting up again.

How can I tell if the problem is my fuel pump? What other things should I check? Could y'all walk me through replacing the fuel pump if need be?

Thanks everyone!

-Will

will_95gt · Feb 28, 2009

UPDATE:

I checked the fuel lines, both the input and the fume lines on the passenger side of the motor seemed to be pretty loose. I went ahead and pushed them on completely and tightened up those little hair-pin clips. I also replaced the fuel filter and tightened up the hoses all around there. After removing the filter, I was able to shake out a little sediment and some black nasty stuff that seemed to be clogging it up pretty good.

Do you guys think a loose fuel line hose and dirty fuel filter could have caused the problems I was describing? It seems like for the car to have died like that and then started up perfectly after a half an hour would have to mean possibly the fuel pump; or at least something capable of intermittent failure.

The car is running now but I can't tell if the problem is actually fixed due to the irregularity of the symptoms.

Anybody have any ideas?!?!

HISSIN50 · Feb 28, 2009

If it happens again, check for spark. If you dont have it, the PIP is likely the issue (it commands the fuel pump to run once the car is started).

If you have spark (and injector pulsing) but fuel-pressure lacks even though the pump runs, it's possibly the issue.

If you haven't, pull codes. Look for PIP, TFI and lean codes in particular.

Hef5.0weisen · Feb 28, 2009

Always different varialbes that we may never know, but a similar event happened to me once.....comng home from work, car died, coasted to a grocery store...wouldn't start. Left it in the parking lot and walked home. Came back that night, started right up, hauled a$$ home,left it till the weekend.
I started inspecting the ignition portion, found the cap and rotor terminals to have a bit of corrosion on them, and generally looked worn out, replaced them never happened again. Maybe worth looking at...

Similar to that had an intermittent staller/no starter, a BMW when I lived in Germany, found the cap cracked on that one, replaced it good to go.

Good Luck

will_95gt · Feb 28, 2009

HISSIN50 said:
If it happens again, check for spark. If you dont have it, the PIP is likely the issue (it commands the fuel pump to run once the car is started).

If you have spark (and injector pulsing) but fuel-pressure lacks even though the pump runs, it's possibly the issue.

If you haven't, pull codes. Look for PIP, TFI and lean codes in particular.

Hey, Hissin, thanks for the response. I'm not familiar with the PIP or the TFI. As far as diagnostics go, if I were to pull the codes, would they only appear during the instance of the problem when my check engine light is on? Or could I pull codes now that could have been triggered in the last few days and then stored? I'm not really sure how OBD I works.

I've heard they can be read with a simple multimeter but that also is something I'm unfamiliar with. Know of a good tutorial?

Thanks as always,

-Will

will_95gt · Feb 28, 2009

Hef5.0weisen said:
Always different varialbes that we may never know, but a similar event happened to me once.....comng home from work, car died, coasted to a grocery store...wouldn't start. Left it in the parking lot and walked home. Came back that night, started right up, hauled a$$ home,left it till the weekend.
I started inspecting the ignition portion, found the cap and rotor terminals to have a bit of corrosion on them, and generally looked worn out, replaced them never happened again. Maybe worth looking at...

Similar to that had an intermittent staller/no starter, a BMW when I lived in Germany, found the cap cracked on that one, replaced it good to go.

Good Luck

Hm, definitely something to think about, thanks!

Adam95GT · Feb 28, 2009

id say its time for a new pump anyway... does it whine at all??? mine was whining since i got the car and died on me one day 2 hours from home... i kicked my fuel tank and the car started up and got me home... when you have this problem again kick your tank like hell... lol

will_95gt · Feb 28, 2009

Adam95GT said:
id say its time for a new pump anyway... does it whine at all??? mine was whining since i got the car and died on me one day 2 hours from home... i kicked my fuel tank and the car started up and got me home... when you have this problem again kick your tank like hell... lol

Hahaha, i'll keep that in mind!

No its not whining at all, besides the short two second whine that sounds when I turn the car to the "run" position as the pump fills up the filter or whatever. I just went and grabbed a digital multimeter to try to check my obd I codes. I'll do it tomorrow when I have enough light.

99FiveOh · Feb 28, 2009

PIP sensor in the dizzy. This issue keeps coming up more and more to the point where we may need a sticky that reads "Intermittent No Start issue, click here". i think if you buy one of these cars you should change two things right away. The balancer and the distributor.

and Adam you're hilarious. First you taught me the proper way to remove a coil spring and now I know how to kick start a fuel pump! Good stuff man, keep em coming!!

Adam95GT · Feb 28, 2009

The_Mustang said:
PIP sensor in the dizzy. This issue keeps coming up more and more to the point where we may need a sticky that reads "Intermittent No Start issue, click here". i think if you buy one of these cars you should change two things right away. The balancer and the distributor.

and Adam you're hilarious. First you taught me the proper way to remove a coil spring and now I know how to kick start a fuel pump! Good stuff man, keep em coming!!

Here is another one for you... if you actually have to change the pump... and your 2 lazy to go buy a fuel line disconnect.... or 2 broke.... you can use toothpicks in the end of the fuel lines to pop the clips that sit inside... HAHA....

Im a 22 year old with a lot of older tips and tricks... im a suburban hick...

will_95gt · Mar 1, 2009

So... anybody know how to pull the OBD I codes yourself?

EDIT: Figured it out.

will_95gt · Mar 1, 2009

Alright guys, I figured out how to check the engine codes. I connected the jumper cable between the pin 2 on the diagnostic test connector and the self-test input and put the key into the KOEO (Key On Engine Off) position.

The Check engine light flickered and then gave me these codes (Hopefully I read them accurately )

Code 565 - "Canister purge circuit failure" [X2]
Code 172 - "Heated O2 sensor indicates lean condition on right side" [X2]
Code 175 - "Heated O2 sensor unable to switch, left side" [X2]
Code 171 - "Heated O2 sensor unable to switch, right side"
Code 176 - "Heated O2 sensor indicates lean condition, left side" [X2]
Code 181 - "Adaptive fuel rich limit reached at part throttle, right side" [X2]
Code 189 - "Adaptive fuel rich limit reached, left side" [X2]

Anybody have any insight as to whether these codes indicate a bad fuel pump? Or as to what they indicate at all? The "lean condition" and "rich limit" must have something to do with my fuel delivery system in general right? Also, is there a way to tell how recent these errors occurred? Does the computer only hold codes in it's memory for a certain amount of time?

Thanks in advanced, errbody.

:SNSign:

icemetalstang · Mar 1, 2009

You can pick up a hands repair manuel. Also need a fuel pressure test gauge. At idle the pressure should be 30 - 40 psi. Detach vacuum hose to regulater and pressure should be 40 - 50. Pinch the return line shut and if pressure does not rise pump is bad. Courtesy of hanes page 4-3. Good luck

HISSIN50 · Mar 1, 2009

will_95gt said:
Anybody have any insight as to whether these codes indicate a bad fuel pump? Or as to what they indicate at all? The "lean condition" and "rich limit" must have something to do with my fuel delivery system in general right? Also, is there a way to tell how recent these errors occurred? Does the computer only hold codes in it's memory for a certain amount of time?

HISSIN50 said:
If you have spark (and injector pulsing) but fuel-pressure lacks even though the pump runs, it's possibly the issue.

If you haven't, pull codes. Look for PIP, TFI and lean codes in particular.

If the fuel pressure test passes (you'll probably only see about 40 PSIG with the vac line disconnected, BTW), check your MAF connections and be sure the O2 harness is connected under the car.

will_95gt · Mar 1, 2009

Alright, cool. Thanks guys.

I'll go pick up a fuel pump pressure gauge asap and let you guys know what results I found. Before T'ing in the fuel pump pressure guage, will I have to depressurize the system? I've heard that you should unplug the harness for the pump shutoff switch that resides behind the wall lining in your trunk and then run the car until it dies in order to depressurize the fuel lines.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to try that. It'd be better than getting 89 octane sprayed into my face lol.

-Will

Chythar · Mar 2, 2009

I had a similar problem with my V6 (now the Cobra clone). The engine would abruptly stop while driving, any speed. Sometimes I could restart it while in motion, other times I had to pull over before it would restart. In my case, it turned out to be the CCRM failing and cutting power to the engine. Something else to check.

HISSIN50 · Mar 2, 2009

will_95gt said:
Alright, cool. Thanks guys.

I'll go pick up a fuel pump pressure gauge asap and let you guys know what results I found. Before T'ing in the fuel pump pressure guage, will I have to depressurize the system? I've heard that you should unplug the harness for the pump shutoff switch that resides behind the wall lining in your trunk and then run the car until it dies in order to depressurize the fuel lines.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to try that. It'd be better than getting 89 octane sprayed into my face lol.

-Will

You don't need to Tee into anything. Use the Schrader valve on the fuel rail.

You indeed should disable the fuel system. You could pull the FP fuse instead. Then let it run till it stalls. Be careful of residual fuel in the line that's still under pressure however (the car stalls before all the fuel is out):

Underhood fuse schematic

will_95gt · Mar 2, 2009

Ok, i hooked up the pressure gauge and its reading 31 psi while in idle. The next step is to detach the vacuum hose from the regulator but I'm not quite sure which hose that is .

I don't want to pull something out while the engine is running that shouldn't be pulled out, lol. So just to clarify, the silver thing circled in this picture is the regulator, correct?

And the vacuum is the small black (with blue stripe) hose coming off of it? Should I just be able to yank on it for it to detach?

Thanks, dudes,

-Will

Chythar · Mar 2, 2009

Yup, that's it. Disconnect the rubber hose from the regulator and cap the hose temporarily with your finger. The fuel pressure should read 38-39 psi.

will_95gt · Mar 2, 2009

Thanks again, Chythar!

Here's my results:

At idle - 31 psi
At idle with vacuum hose disconnected from regulator - 42 psi

You guys seem to agree that with the vacuum disconnected, I should be reading around 40 psi, is 42 too high or do these numbers look healthy?

Thanks!

Me thinks my fuel pump is going out!

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