mustang II front end

351w_swap · Aug 3, 2006

Im looking at putting a mustang 2 front end in my 65, Im getting frustrated with the soft suspension, leaky, bad steering, and the front drums (no stopping power). Has anyone got any pics of the installed front end on a classic, im a little confused about the instalation of the rack and pinon steering, plus I would like to see how it works. I am specifically looking at Heidt's but if you have any better suggestions, let me know, thanks.

Jester67 · Aug 3, 2006

I personally do not like the MII setup on our cars. They load the suspension in ways that they where never designed for. This can be corrected but it requires a great deal of work to add the appropriate reinforcements. In addition, weld quality has been an issue with this conversion. With all of this in mind coupled with the fact that the MII will not perform as well as a performance suspension based on the stock design.

Do a search of this board this has been discussed often.

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351w_swap · Aug 3, 2006

Here is the thing, I have a 351w in my 65 that has about 1/16 inch clearance in several spots but even then, that is only because I hacked up the shock towers. From what I have seen a mustang 2 front end will be the most economical way to get a set of disks, a performance suspension, and rack and pinion steering, while also losing the shocktowers for better clearance. I will be installing some custom subframe connectors soon, and when i do the suspension in the front, I will probably do some custom tube reinforcement on the front frame rails so I'm not too worried about stress problems, but this is the first time that I have heard of problems with the weld quality on these front ends, I guess I should choose which shop to buy from carefully.

reenmachine · Aug 3, 2006

I have installed several Heidt's MII front ends and love them. The factory welds on them look like they were done by a robot -- there is no way for them to be better. The way the Heidt's kit reinforces the frame rails, there is no reason to worry about the different loading except under extreme track conditions, in which case tubular reinforcement inside the fenderwell from the front of the frame rails running up to high on the cowl completely fixes everything.

I have seen and done all of this first hand, unlike most, if not all, of the detractors of these systems.

The ride and handling are great for a street car. Many people will scream that you can get better handling from other suspension types, which is true, but you're only ever going to see the difference at 9/10ths or above, which very few people here have ever seen. Most Mustang owners desire a nice, comfortable ride, handling that is much better than stock, crisp steering, and nice disc brakes. The Heidt's MII kit gives you all of these.

To be fair, I have never installed the Rod & Custom version, but have only heard good things about it. There are aspects of their design that I like better than Heidt's, but they don't reinforce the frame rails nearly as much.

You can find plenty of pics on my website. Feel free to email or call if you'd like to know more.

Dark Knight · Aug 4, 2006

Pic of a friends R&C

I have the Heidts for mine, not installed though.

Jester67 · Aug 4, 2006

I was referring to the weld quality of the install not the piece, as you are welding into relative thin material that is 35+ years old. It cannot be denied that when you remove the shock towers the integrity of the front assembly is compromised. As I said this could be corrected with proper, well thought reinforcement and bracing but many do not do this step. While I do agree that this can be a cost, affective alternative care most be take to insure it will generate the desired results. Reen your work is exceptional but you are not the average installer of one of these kits you have the ability to make it look ease.
This in not an attack of anyone’s preference it is your car do with it as you please. An opinion was asked for and one was given nothing more.

reenmachine · Aug 4, 2006

Jester67 said:
I was referring to the weld quality of the install not the piece, as you are welding into relative thin material that is 35+ years old. It cannot be denied that when you remove the shock towers the integrity of the front assembly is compromised. As I said this could be corrected with proper, well thought reinforcement and bracing but many do not do this step. While I do agree that this can be a cost, affective alternative care most be take to insure it will generate the desired results. Reen your work is exceptional but you are not the average installer of one of these kits you have the ability to make it look ease.
This in not an attack of anyone’s preference it is your car do with it as you please. An opinion was asked for and one was given nothing more.

I didn't want to sound like I was attacking you, I just wanted to show the other side of the fence.

Jester67 · Aug 4, 2006

reenmachine said:
I didn't want to sound like I was attacking you, I just wanted to show the other side of the fence.

mtbdoc · Aug 4, 2006

The R&C Motorsports kit is very well built, and it is not all that complicated of an install. We are reinforcing the front end...but then again, 800hp can put some stress on the chassis!

I haven't decided what I will do in the 2+2, but I think the MII was just the ticket for the 'vert.

xoxbxfx · Aug 4, 2006

might as well show the pics I took today of my buildup

View attachment 450903

351w_swap · Aug 6, 2006

so, im still a little confused, I tried to find a picture to decide whether I can use my stock steering box and column. I would like to if possible but I know that many people end up using a flaming river tilt column and box, so im just wondering what kind of special linkages I will need to hook up my steering box, or which new steering box to go with (if i have to). Oh, and thanks for all the info and pics, they are great!

reenmachine · Aug 6, 2006

You do not use your stock steering box at all with a MII setup. They all use a rack & pinion system, which mounts on the front of the crossmember. The spindles steer from the front. It is a gazillion times better than stock steering. You can use your stock column and modify it to work with the MII. I know Heidt's makes a kit to convert it and R&C probably does as well. Almost everybody goes ahead and converts to a Flaming River or Ididit tilt column since they're so nice.

xoxbxfx · Aug 7, 2006

reenmachine said:
You do not use your stock steering box at all with a MII setup. They all use a rack & pinion system, which mounts on the front of the crossmember. The spindles steer from the front. It is a gazillion times better than stock steering. You can use your stock column and modify it to work with the MII. I know Heidt's makes a kit to convert it and R&C probably does as well. Almost everybody goes ahead and converts to a Flaming River or Ididit tilt column since they're so nice.

<---- flaming river and Ididit column

mustangbrad · Aug 7, 2006

Does anyone know how Martz Mustang II kit stacks up against the Headt's and R & C kits? Year One has been putting them in the some of the Mustangs they build.

justinhip · Oct 5, 2006

reenmachine said:
You do not use your stock steering box at all with a MII setup. They all use a rack & pinion system, which mounts on the front of the crossmember. The spindles steer from the front. It is a gazillion times better than stock steering. You can use your stock column and modify it to work with the MII. I know Heidt's makes a kit to convert it and R&C probably does as well. Almost everybody goes ahead and converts to a Flaming River or Ididit tilt column since they're so nice.

I am in the process of modifying my stock column. What I had found is a piece of structural tubing that is 2" od and 1-5/8" id. From mcmaster Carr I got a flanged, sealed bearing that fits into the structural tube. My plan is to weld this piece of tube into the shortened steering column tube. I figure the tube needs to enter the engine compartment and inch or so. Then, cut the steering shaft off of the box and cut a double "d" to attach the u-joint to. For lower support, I got an adjustable ididit column bracket. The only last thought is what will keep the shaft from falling through if the steering wheel is off. Realistically, the the universal joint assembly don to the rack should hold it. I am however figuring on welding a step to the inside. Oh, I also have a piece of tubing to cut and make a "drill stop" so you cannot pull the wheel up towards you. A simpler soultion, although kinda crude, is to tig a couple of spots holding the braing to the shaft.

reenmachine · Oct 5, 2006

I believe the steering shaft is secured into the column from moving either way with C-clips or something, so you can probably save some of that effort. At least I've had columns out a million times (with no steering wheel on) and the shaft has never budged.

justinhip · Oct 5, 2006

reenmachine said:
I believe the steering shaft is secured into the column from moving either way with C-clips or something, so you can probably save some of that effort. At least I've had columns out a million times (with no steering wheel on) and the shaft has never budged.

There is some sort of retaining ring. I have not had much time to physically do the work yet. It isn't like a snap ring but still may work. I also need to see if it would be an issue once the wheel is mounted and the steering linkage is hooked up. Right now, my biggest concern is whether the oil pan on my cleveland is gonna work well or will I be modifying it. Its a rear sump moroso that currently in a fox body. We'll see.

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