Mustang Plus Carpet Kit Is Junk!

68rustang · Apr 15, 2005

I applaud Ron for signing on here and responding to the critics. However you guys need to shop around M+ is just about the most expensive supply house out there.

PS - it's wAnt not wOnt.

Gud T.B. Blown · Apr 15, 2005

Jester67 said:
Quality comes from within. If you wont to know how your phone service people are behaving on the phone they sell call-monitoring systems all day long. Small price to pay to make sure your phone people are on the straight and narrow. I know this because I have setup technical support call systems before. That way you will not have to take someone else word for it you can hear it for your self. Proactive is better than reactive any day. Remember it takes every call to keep a customer but only one to lose them forever.

reading this thread made me think of my friend who has worked in a 4WD shop for many years. they are a large operation and advertise in national magazines. he tells me stories all of the time about treating their customers and potential customers like crap because they may ask the wrong question or don't know every minute detail about their truck. the counter guys even make sport of making fun of the call-ins. the ownership is onsite eveyday and obviously don't monitor the phone calls. business is so good that there really is no need to change. lose on customer, pick up 3 more is the attitude.

1320stang · Apr 15, 2005

I think it's cool that Ron got on here to respond to the problem and is wanting to work it out. I also appreciate mdjay of Mustang Depot and 65fsbkhipo of Florida Mustang posting here.

It's true that many Mustang supply companies get their products fromt eh same vendors. Ron said he started Mustang Plus because of the quality of some of the stuff out there. If I buy something, I want quality, I don't want cheap crap. Maybe the reason Ron's prices are higher is because he has higher quality parts? I don't know.

If there are 3 manufacturers for a part, lets say headlight buckets, and 2 of the manufacturer's are pretty close in quality and price, and the 3rd is way better quality, but the price is higher. All the parts shops can get these from any of the manufacturers, but they can sell the lesser quality parts at say $89.95 each, but the high quality ones are $179.95. Well, I can buy two for the price of one of the others, so that one company is way too high. You don't know if they're all getting the same part from the same place or not, it's not like they advertise the part makers name. You've got to keep an open mind in some of this. If I were to start my own Mustang parts place, I'd stock nothing but the best, so I'd have the $179.95 buckets, but say there's only one manufacturer for, sill plates. Everyone has the same part, the same price, and they all suck, what do I do? I mean it's the best part available, heck it's the only one there is.

I also agree that it's hard to keep an eye on everything every employee does once the company gets very big. I'm not sure about the call monitoring deal, but maybe a survey card included in every shipment could be done for much cheaper. I'm assuming the employees have employee numbers on the tickets, it'd be pretty easy to determine who's got a crappy attitude and who is a good employee. It's easier to go thru these than it is to monitor every call made.

GT2K · Apr 15, 2005

6Stang7 said:
i dont get your point?

I knew that when I posted it, you've already made that clear

thehueypilot · Apr 15, 2005

RonB said:
Hi, guys. Ron Bramlett here from Mustangs Plus. This thread was sent to me by one of our customers that thought I would like to respond to the negativity that's being directed towards my company. He is right. I do. The truth is, I actually started Mustangs Plus back in 1981 because I was dissatisfied with the way I was treated by a well known Mustang parts retailer. So, reading this thread has a special meaning to me. I told myself then that we would never treat our customers like that and over the years I've tried to build a business that doesn't treat people the way some of you have indicated that you've been treated. But every business has to have company policies that their employees can follow. And I agree, some of these policies are usually not what you, the customer, want to hear. That's why I've always made myself accessable to our customers so that anyone who is dissatisfied in any way can talk to me personally.

Hello Ron;
Thanks for responding in person! I would have to say that this forum could be another good tool to gage your employee's customer satisfaction rating. It sounds like it is not very good. I have seen the same thing over and over again in this forum and in our own business where the manager/owner has no clue to what is going on with all his customers. Of couse I always thought that maybe you should actually know the product you sell. I think the fustration comes in on both the "order entry" side and the "after sell" side where some of your employees are not trained as well on dealing with the customer issues or questions. Maybe you should tell them to always put themselves in the place of the customer and to treat them like they would want to be treated. If they don't know the answer than say so and tell the customer that you will find out and call them back. Yes, I realize TMI only makes upholstery but if ACC had TMI's quality standards maybe they would fit better. I also realize you are not the manufacturer of your products, but you approve of their quality standards by selling them. I get the feeling that some of the negative responses coming from this thread are your employees tying to protect your company which proves my point about customer relations. I would like to know if you buy your parts on price or quality?

Tim

66moneypit · Apr 15, 2005

thehueypilot said:
Hello Ron;
Thanks for responding in person! I would have to say that this forum could be another good tool to gage your employee's customer satisfaction rating. It sounds like it is not very good. I have seen the same thing over and over again in this forum and in our own business where the manager/owner has no clue to what is going on with all his customers. Of couse I always thought that maybe you should actually know the product you sell. I think the fustration comes in on both the "order entry" side and the "after sell" side where some of your employees are not trained as well on dealing with the customer issues or questions. Maybe you should tell them to always put themselves in the place of the customer and to treat them like they would want to be treated. If they don't know the answer than say so and tell the customer that you will find out and call them back. Yes, I realize TMI only makes upholstery but if ACC had TMI's quality standards maybe they would fit better. I also realize you are not the manufacturer of your products, but you approve of their quality standards by selling them. I get the feeling that some of the negative responses coming from this thread are your employees tying to protect your company which proves my point about customer relations. I would like to know if you buy your parts on price or quality?

Tim

The honest answer to that has to be both...even if it's not stated.....
I think you make some valid points. I will make one point that nobody has made yet...least not directly. RonB has a VESTED interest in seeing that his company has a good reputation or at least a fair one. The BIGGEST problem with employees is they DON'T have a VESTED interest in the company. They get paid the SAME whether you give them an order or not...and that is reflected in their behavior. Ron wouldn't behave like a jerk cause he sees the bottom line. I am not making excuses for that behavior....I never behaved that way when I was in that type of job but I guarantee that's the mindset of some of the people answering the phones. Ron would do himself good to get more feedback to correct that problem.

As far as prices go, I think alot of that has to do with your cost to run the business. Like I said...I know Va Mustang offers some of the exact same parts as M+ for cheaper because they can....the cost of living and owning a business in rural Va is cheaper.

66moneypit · Apr 15, 2005

GT2K said:
I knew that when I posted it, you've already made that clear

I am not sure what was funny about this....please share the joke...
The wording on post you are talking about definitely isn't clear, seems a little convoluted to me.

Edbert · Apr 15, 2005

I have ordered from M+ before, only had one problem one time. When i called about returning the wrong product I did not get the result I wanted so I asked for the manager (I don't think it was Ron but am not sure...it was over 6 years ago), he and I worked out an agreement and I am satisfied.

M+ is not the cheapest that is true, but they have been around this hobby for a long time, and the do a lot of thier own R&D as someone else mentioned. Back in the early 80s it was them and Maier who did much of the pioneering. Ron and his son's contribute to the community via their racing team and their show attendance. They post 2-page color spreads (expensive) that illustrate and inform more than they sell. They publish a periodical newsletter too. I'm not saying they are the greates thing ever or that we all need to shop their exclusively but the bashing they've received her is out of line.

For the future...
If you ever have trouble with a product from any company or its representative try to escalate your issue to their manager, or the manager's manager if you must. At some point in that chain you will reach someone who cares and will make it right. Try to not post things in a relatively anonymous forum that can damage the livelyhood of folks who were not given the chance to make things right.

Conversely, if you speak to the owner or head manager of "Shop-ABC" and he says to f-off, then come in here and flame away

6Stang7 · Apr 15, 2005

66moneypit said:
I am not sure what was funny about this....please share the joke...
The wording on post you are talking about definitely isn't clear, seems a little convoluted to me.

seriously. i'm utterly lost. just a bad joke maybe?

6Stang7 · Apr 15, 2005

Edbert said:
I have ordered from M+ before, only had one problem one time. When i called about returning the wrong product I did not get the result I wanted so I asked for the manager (I don't think it was Ron but am not sure...it was over 6 years ago), he and I worked out an agreement and I am satisfied.

M+ is not the cheapest that is true, but they have been around this hobby for a long time, and the do a lot of thier own R&D as someone else mentioned. Back in the early 80s it was them and Maier who did much of the pioneering. Ron and his son's contribute to the community via their racing team and their show attendance. They post 2-page color spreads (expensive) that illustrate and inform more than they sell. They publish a periodical newsletter too. I'm not saying they are the greates thing ever or that we all need to shop their exclusively but the bashing they've received her is out of line.

For the future...
If you ever have trouble with a product from any company or its representative try to escalate your issue to their manager, or the manager's manager if you must. At some point in that chain you will reach someone who cares and will make it right. Try to not post things in a relatively anonymous forum that can damage the livelyhood of folks who were not given the chance to make things right.

Conversely, if you speak to the owner or head manager of "Shop-ABC" and he says to f-off, then come in here and flame away

very well put Edbert.

1320stang · Apr 15, 2005

I agree Edbert, with the internet now, people start bashing before they try all avenues to resolve the problem. I'm not saying that's what went on here, but I've seen too many examples of it. Sometimes they get stuff resolved and never go back and change their posts either. You really have to research both the company and the people posting the bad stuff anymore. Some people are naturally hot headed anyway.

As far as my local Mustang shop, Mustang Parts of Oklahoma, when they were previously owned by someone else, and in a different location, I went in to buy some 3 speed shifter bushings for my '65 coupe. I had only had the car for about a year, poor college student, and the car was painted a metallic Persimmon color, sorta like the rust colored new Chevy Avalanche trucks. It had been wrecked in the front, only got into the exterior sheet metal, and I had bought a front clip off a red fastback and hadn't gotten a paint job yet. After I bought the parts, the smartass helping me followed me outside and preceeded to tell me what a piece of s*** car I had. He had a '71-'73 Mustang coupe with a warmed over Cleveland, Mach I wing on the back, and the hole in the hood with the fake butterfly injector housing. He asked me if I wanted to race and got into his car and started it up and immediately started wrapping the motor up to 5-6k.

I didn't say squat, I just got into my car and drove off, and never bought anything there again. I could have gotten the kit for about 3/4 the price with shipping had I bought it from Dallas Mustang Parts, but I'd have had to wait about a week.

66moneypit · Apr 15, 2005

1320stang said:
I agree Edbert, with the internet now, people start bashing before they try all avenues to resolve the problem. I'm not saying that's what went on here, but I've seen too many examples of it. Sometimes they get stuff resolved and never go back and change their posts either. You really have to research both the company and the people posting the bad stuff anymore. Some people are naturally hot headed anyway.

As far as my local Mustang shop, Mustang Parts of Oklahoma, when they were previously owned by someone else, and in a different location, I went in to buy some 3 speed shifter bushings for my '65 coupe. I had only had the car for about a year, poor college student, and the car was painted a metallic Persimmon color, sorta like the rust colored new Chevy Avalanche trucks. It had been wrecked in the front, only got into the exterior sheet metal, and I had bought a front clip off a red fastback and hadn't gotten a paint job yet. After I bought the parts, the smartass helping me followed me outside and preceeded to tell me what a piece of s*** car I had. He had a '71-'73 Mustang coupe with a warmed over Cleveland, Mach I wing on the back, and the hole in the hood with the fake butterfly injector housing. He asked me if I wanted to race and got into his car and started it up and immediately started wrapping the motor up to 5-6k.

I didn't say squat, I just got into my car and drove off, and never bought anything there again. I could have gotten the kit for about 3/4 the price with shipping had I bought it from Dallas Mustang Parts, but I'd have had to wait about a week.

Obviously the guy you were dealing with had confidence issues....
Some people need to make others feel beneath them...so they can feel good about themselves. When I meet those types of people... I introduce my foot to their ass...

mustangdave · Apr 15, 2005

Holy crap, 3 pages on a vendor complaint.......good thing we don't need a parts review section, huh, moderators????????

68rustang · Apr 16, 2005

Edbert said:
...the bashing they've received her is out of line.

For the future...
If you ever have trouble with a product from any company or its representative try to escalate your issue to their manager, or the manager's manager if you must. At some point in that chain you will reach someone who cares and will make it right. Try to not post things in a relatively anonymous forum that can damage the livelyhood of folks who were not given the chance to make things right.

Conversely, if you speak to the owner or head manager of "Shop-ABC" and he says to f-off, then come in here and flame away

I don't think any of this has been out of line. Nothing inflamatory has been said that I have seen. No name calling or childish behavior. Why is it the consumers responsibility to go the distance when the vendor is the one charging $. I think every employee is a reflection of the company they work for.

markstang1969 · Apr 16, 2005

68rustang said:
I don't think any of this has been out of line. Nothing inflamatory has been said that I have seen. No name calling or childish behavior. Why is it the consumers responsibility to go the distance when the vendor is the one charging $. I think every employee is a reflection of the company they work for.

Only thing I see as out of line is post #1, where he ASSUMES he cannot send it back and doesn't even give M+ a CHANCE to fix the problem.

will not return due to the length of time i had it...and if they did i would have to pay shipping there and back again for the new product

It doesn't say he called or tried, just that he waited and decided not to try...

66moneypit · Apr 16, 2005

markstang1969 said:
Only thing I see as out of line is post #1, where he ASSUMES he cannot send it back and doesn't even give M+ a CHANCE to fix the problem.

It doesn't say he called or tried, just that he waited and decided not to try...

This whole thread just goes to show how important customer service is. No matter where you stack up on the isssues.... I certainly don't think anyone's comments where out of line. Nobody called the owner names or each other. They just expressed their displeasure with their experiences.... which I think is a strength of this forum as long as it's fairly done.

Edbert · Apr 16, 2005

I have to agree that nothing was "out of line", that term carries some fairly striong implications. I DO think it is wrong to flame a vendor if you did not first exhaust all avenues first. I don't even know if that happened in this specific case, I am just speaking in generalities here.

markstang1969 · Apr 16, 2005

66moneypit said:
This whole thread just goes to show how important customer service is. No matter where you stack up on the isssues.... I certainly don't think anyone's comments where out of line. Nobody called the owner names or each other. They just expressed their displeasure with their experiences.... which I think is a strength of this forum as long as it's fairly done.

I strongly agree with those statements. But I would take the thread title " Mustang Plus Carpet Kit Is Junk!" as a flame. It doesn't say, "can someone help me with a customer service issue?"

6Stang7 · Apr 16, 2005

and that's just it. mustangs plus sells ACC carpet, which is sold by all major mustang parts dealers because it is the best available. It seems like there is this anti-mustangs plus sentiment out there and I am dumbfounded by it. I have dealt with them many, many times and haven’t had any problems like this. If the carpet doesn’t fit (and I am thinking that something might have been done wrong in the install process), then call them and talk to them. Do you really expect ANY supplier to get everything correct 100% of the time? Mistakes do happen, so give them the chance to fix it.

RonB · Apr 20, 2005

Ron Bramlett here from Mustangs Plus again. I just got back from the Knott's Berry Farm Show and it was a great show! Sorry for not responding sooner but I really didn't know if I should or not. This is not the most friendly place for me to be. But I have thought it over and I want to make this one last post. I'm sorry it's going to be so long but it has to be. I've read all of this thread and all of you have asked some very good questions and made some very good comments. First of all, I do not know of any of the employees here at Mustangs Plus knowing of this thread except for one. And I'll find out from him if he has posted here. Even so, I don't think he has. On customer service, last year we had a salesman whose best friend passed away. In fact, it was another employee here at Mustangs Plus. Because of the loss of his friend, his mental state was so bad that we had to take him off the phones. But we had to have just cause to do that. Employers just can't remove someone from thier job unless they can prove that they're not doing it correctly. If you do, you can have a very costly law suit on your hands. In my opinion this salesman wasn't intentionally trying to be rude to the customers. But, as we found out later, he was. It took us getting complaints from customers in the form of emails and letters to show to him before he could understand that his greif was pouring over into his job. How many people did he talk to? I don't know. But I do know this. Months before, when this same salesman had found out that he and his wife were going to be parents for the 2nd time, I received nothing but praise from the customers he helped in the weeks to come. My point is this. Any of us, any parts supplier, can have great salespeople one day and a problem the next. Most people don't let their personal lives effect their jobs. Others can't help it. Our customers are our best way of getting the feedback we need to make the adjustment. If nobody complains, it takes us longer to know there's a problem and deal with it. Believe me, no business owner that I know of wants people dealing with the public who make their customers mad at them. But, on the other hand, our salesman get asked some very strange questions. Once, I was passed along a call from someone wanting to know the exact size of our 620 coil springs. I spent several minutes on the phone with a 620 coil spring and a measuring tape before I found out that the customer did not have a Mustang. In fact, he was a Chevy man. He was looking for a spring for the diving board on his swimming pool and had seen a picture in one of our ads. No sale on the spring. Sometimes, the calls are funny. On the other hand, the verbal abuse some of our salesman have taken for not knowing the answer to some far out question like the one above is unexplainable. But it happens more than you think. And it can effect the salesman for awhile. And that brings us to this. Someone mentioned recording the sales calls. As much as I would hate having to do that, I am considering it. Besides sending the wrong siginal to our employees, that we don't trust them or that they are doing something wrong, it's another expense. Not just the equiptment. That's the cheap part. To get any benifit out of the equiptment, you have to have someone listen to the tapes. This means another non-producing employee on the payroll. Non-producing employees are those whose jobs don't bring money into the company but take money away such as janitors, bookkeepers, ect. Don't get me wrong. They are just as important as income-producing employees but you have to keep the right ratio between them or the business suffers. Then there's meetings with the department heads about the tapes. Then meetings with the salesman which turn negative, most of the time. And so on and so on. What does this do to prices? You either have to sell more product, make cuts somewhere else or raise prices. And that brings us to this. Many of you have said that Mustangs Plus is the most expensive. Some of you apparently hate us for this, but I fail to see why. You're free to buy from anyone else so why the hatred? The fact is that yes, we are the most expensive on some products, but on others we're the lowest. So is every other vendor the highest and the lowest on something. It just depends on which products you need, or want, at the time. But I can say this. A lot of the products out there are not the same quality as we sell. I say this as a fact because from time to time we buy products from the other companies so we can see what they are selling and compare our products. So on many of the products, I know what's out there and what the quality it is. If it's Scott Drake, or one of a hundred other vendors, then the price comes into play because it's the same product. At that point, the closer the vendor is to you is important. Mustangs Plus is on the west coast. For someone on the east coast to order that product, they're better off with a more local company. Faster service and less shipping. Same product, better deal. There's nothing wrong with this. I understand that Mustangs Plus can't sell every product to everybody. If there was only one supplier, there would be no hobby. But there are other aspects that also apply. Many times, we bring a product to market by working on it for months with a manufactor and when it's done, we list it in our catalog at a retail price. The next month, it can be in someone elses magazine ad for a few dollars less than ours because they can buy it from that manufactor the same as we can. This has happened to us for years and years and will continue to happen because we are always looking for new products to sell. In fact, it happens to every parts dealer that brings a new product to market; not just to Mustangs Plus. I choose not to play the "Drop The Price" game because in the long run, it can hurt the production of those products. The Total Control fiasco is an excellent example of this. When it gets down to where the people who do the advertising can't make a reasonable profit on something, they quit advertising and selling that product. Then, production either stops or the price goes way up. Can some of you remember ordering Total Control products from them but they could not send them to you? Total Control kept dropping their prices and litteraly sold themselves right out of business. And that's ashame. Terry and Diane are good people who should be millionaires instead of losing everything that they owned and having to sell their company for pennies on the dollar. That brings us pricing so let's talk about price increases and surcharges which cut margins which are what companies like Mustangs Plus work to keep in line. Right now, gas and steel prices are going through the roof. More and more companies are tacking on surcharges to ours, and everybody else's, bills. We pay the freight bills to all our shipping companies and then we receive a fuel surcharge for every package we send out. Can you imagine if we, meaning all the vendors, sent our customers another invoice for products that they had already paid for? On top of that, we get price changes from our suppliers all the time as they try to keep up with their cost which keep going up because gas and steel prices continue to rise. We try not to pass these on until the next catalog but our suppliers make a phone call or write a letter and the price goes up. So what, you say? Every vendor is in the same boat, you say? True. But it's a leaking boat that is, at some point, going to leak all the profits away from some. We have to set prices and hold them or it hurts the hobby. If we were to adjust prices downward, and everyone else did the same, many of the products you take for granted would dissappear. If it means that we have to hold the price and let everybody else be lower priced than us, then that's what we have to do. One of you said that I'm an enthusiast and you're right. I love cars. Period. But I'm also a businessman who has a responsibility to all the empolyees of Mustangs Plus. I have no desire to have the biggest company; I do have the desire to have a stable company. By running a stable company, we are able to plan for the future, pay employee benifits and bring more and more products to the Mustang hobby. Almost all of our employees have a family to support and look to Mustangs Plus for their welfare. When you buy from Mustangs Plus, you are helping all of them and their families. We don't hire college kids to answer the phones, process the orders, or work in shipping that are not going to be here in a month. But not everyone knows everything about Mustangs, as I don't either. I get several calls a month from people looking for answers I don't know. And I've been at this for over 25 years. Another thing about pricing, since it seems to be the single most important focual point for some of you. We could not be the cheapest on everything, even if we wanted to. Someone will always drop the price to make a sale. If price is the only thing you shop for, you'll never build a good customer relationship with any one company. And in the long run, that can be a lot more beneficial to your pocketbook than saving a few dollars on the parts you buy. I'm not just saying that for Mustangs Plus' benifit. Every vendor you order from deserves the same. One last point and I'll be done. Mustangs Plus deals with thousands of 1965 to 1973 Mustang owners each month. We ship thousands of packages each week. The letters and calls I get praising Mustangs Plus far out weighs the letters and calls I get with problems. If we are not deserving of the praise and are deserving of the problems, I will make sure it is fixed. But I have to know of the problems before I can fix them. As I said before, I'm not hard to find. You can call me or leave me a message and I'll call you. Understand, if you do business with our company and have a problem, we'll get it fixed. If we're given the chance. Every customer is important to us, especially those who need our help to solve a problem. Sorry for this being so long but in reality, it's just the tip of the iceberg. I could go on and on but I'll stop here.

Mustang Plus Carpet Kit Is Junk!

68rustang

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Gud T.B. Blown

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1320stang

GT2K

thehueypilot

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66moneypit

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Edbert

6Stang7

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66moneypit

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mustangdave

My rearend needs a stud and two nuts.

68rustang

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markstang1969

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66moneypit

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Edbert

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