Mustang Wins Again

[05Scott]

Just got back from a day at the California Speedway. Mustang won their second Grand Am Cup race of the year. The #05 driven by Gunnar Jeannette and James Gue won, edging a Porsche 996 and BMW M3.

Wasn't the largest crowd at California Speedway that I've ever seen (by a long shot), but we had a a lot of fun and there was a lot of cheering in the grandstands the two times during the race that Mustangs took the lead.

http://www.grand-am.com/Events/Event.asp?ID=96

 

[05canuck]

Thats great!! nice to see the Stang doing well..

 

[Kensho]

That Gives the new Mustangs 2 First Place Finishs and a 2nd Place Finish.

Not bad after 3 races.

 

[Doc GTO]

The new stang is doing well and looks killer in race trim. My only question is why it is powered by the 5.0 Cammer crate motor instead of a modded version of the production 3 valve 4.6.

 

[ExCon]

Hey Doc, simply because this car has absolutely NOTHING to do with a Mustang. When a Ford Mustang is beating out automobiles like the M3 trust me there is no "MUSTANG" left in the car. These cars are so heavily modified that they are Mustangs in name only.

 

[Kensho]

And the Porches and M3s are stock right?

Face it EXCON. THe stang is whuppin your German cars hands down and consitantly.

 

[TomServo92]

And the Porches and M3s are stock right?

Face it EXCON. THe stang is whuppin your German cars hands down and consitantly.

That's correct. All the cars that participate are modified but they all ride on a suspension that's based on the stock cars. That means the Mustang, with it's solid rear axle, is beating cars with an IRS.

 

[ExCon]

Of course not, simply put these cars have NOTHING to do with the cars that you or I own. For anyone to say the Mustang beat this or that has no relevance to the car that YOU drive. Don't believe me? Then I suggest the next time am M3 rolls up see if you can even read his plates after a minute of REAL DRIVING. I am not talking about hillbilly quarter mile drivin, I mean REAL DRIVIN where they separate True Performance Cars from inferior platforms with massive motors. Face it, there ain't no way ANY Mustang will EVER compare to an M3 in terms of performance nor should they. A 25K car VS a 50K Machine. There is and will never be any comparison. If you think you CAN compare these cars your living in a complete fantasy land.

 

[kevins05v-6]

fantasy land.

ahh Fantasy Land thats my address.

Nice win though for the Mustang a nice performance white Mustang, actually you mean to tell me thats not the same as my little V-6?

 

[TomServo92]

... fantasy land.

Fantasy land? Isn't that just across the border from denial land????

You're correct, you can't compare a $50K car to a $25K car, unless you strip them down to the bare essentials (chassis/suspension and engine) and race them under a very well defined set of rules. So far the racing has been tight but the Mustang has come out on top 2 out of 3 times. That speaks volumes for the basic structure underneath the Mustang, whether you like or not.

 

[ExCon]

You just don't seem to get it do you boys? Your talking about race cars, they have NOTHING in common with the car you own. What car can you or I own? It certainly is not these race car which can't be driven on the street anyhow. So lets discuss something rational: a stock Mustang and a stock M3. Now you have 2 BASE cars that you CAN make comparisons with. Unfortunately for the Mustang in terms of performance the M3 will eat it for breakfast, lunch, AND dinner. But once again its completely unfair to compare these 2 cars since the M3 is in a totally different league of automobile. The track cars mentioned have nothing in common with a stock Mustang or M3 so how can you possibly compare them either? You know what the really funny thing is? That people actually love their cars so much that they begin to believe they are superior to VASTLY SUPERIOR automobiles. Look I LOVE my Mustang but I am not so much of an idiot that I think my car has the slightest chance against a car like the M3. Completely ridiculous argument and the only reason I bother replying is to increase my post count since comparing an M3 and a Mustang is totally irrational thinking.

 

[TomServo92]

You just don't seem to get it do you boys? Your talking about race cars, they have NOTHING in common with the car you own. What car can you or I own? It certainly is not these race car which can't be driven on the street anyhow. So lets discuss something rational: a stock Mustang and a stock M3. Now you have 2 BASE cars that you CAN make comparisons with. Unfortunately for the Mustang in terms of performance the M3 will eat it for breakfast, lunch, AND dinner. But once again its completely unfair to compare these 2 cars since the M3 is in a totally different league of automobile. The track cars mentioned have nothing in common with a stock Mustang or M3 so how can you possibly compare them either? You know what the really funny thing is? That people actually love their cars so much that they begin to believe they are superior to VASTLY SUPERIOR automobiles. Look I LOVE my Mustang but I am not so much of an idiot that I think my car has the slightest chance against a car like the M3. Completely ridiculous argument and the only reason I bother replying is to increase my post count since comparing an M3 and a Mustang is totally irrational thinking.

Based upon your previous posts I know you aren't a moron but I don't understand why you aren't getting the fact that BOTH cars, while highly modified, are based on the stock vehicles. This isn't NASCAR we're talking about where the cars are just shells on top of a common chassis. I never said the Mustang was vastly superior so stop sticking words in my mouth. I said the Mustang is able to compete and win against the M3 which says alot about the underlying structure of the car. Don't you find it interesting that the "race cars" based on the '04 Mustangs can't compete with the M3, but the '05s can?

 

[jasonlee0704]

Face it, there ain't no way ANY Mustang will EVER compare to an M3 in terms of performance nor should they. A 25K car VS a 50K Machine. There is and will never be any comparison. If you think you CAN compare these cars your living in a complete fantasy land.

Wow, okay, let's see what googling pulls up:

From Car And Driver:

2003 BMW M3

$51,000 as tested
3.2L I6 24V flywheel 333 HP/262 lb.-ft. torque
6 speed OD manual, optional 6 speed SMG
weight: 3523 lbs. + driver
0.88g skidpad
70-0 mph: 161 ft.
13.1 s ET 1/4 mile

2005 Ford Mustang GT

$28,000 as tested
4.6L V8 24V flywheel 300 HP/320 lb.-ft. torque
5 speed OD manual
weight: 3523 lbs. (Shaker 500 audio) + driver
0.87g skidpad
70-0 mph: 183 ft.
13.5 s ET 1/4 mile (2nd test)

Yup, there's NO WAY these two automobiles are comparable. </sarcasm> And before someone whines about a 2003 M3 being tested, there isn't a single notable revision between the 2003 tested and the 2005 listed on BMW's website.

And yes, I realize it's magazine racing, but at least it's the same magazine, as opposed to cherry picking.

 

[ExCon]

Tom, I will agree completely with ou last statement, believe it or not! But how can you best compare ANY CAR lets forget about Mustangs and M3's. The way to compare the car is in stock form. Now thats a true comparison for any car. This new Mustang certainly deserves alot of credit. Fortunately Ford knew enough that in order to build a Mustang that could actually perform they had to build a new factory from the ground up. The 05 is light years ahead of the FOX platforms and I personally LOVE the car. Having said that I know enough to realize that I will NEVER compare my car to cars like the M3, Boxster, 911 etc. These car are light years ahead of the 05 just like the 05 is light year ahead of the Fox platform. As its totally unfair to compare the old Mustang with the new, likewise it is also unfair to compare a Ford Mustang with high end performance vehicles. They just ain't in the same league! Generally speaking I really dislike US built cars but I LOVE my car! One thing Ford did very well was design and build an AFFORDABLE 300HP Convertible that handles fairly well and appears to be fairly well built considering its a US built car. If they spent another 5K on the interior this car would draw customers from the Audi S4 market. I personally would have paid just under 40K for this car with a German Quality interior. Now for me to tell you that this car with a German Quality Interior has the capabilities to give an S4 Cabriolet a run for its money speaks volumes for what I think of the car!

 

[TomServo92]

Tom, I will agree completely with ou last statement, believe it or not! But how can you best compare ANY CAR lets forget about Mustangs and M3's. The way to compare the car is in stock form. Now thats a true comparison for any car. This new Mustang certainly deserves alot of credit. Fortunately Ford knew enough that in order to build a Mustang that could actually perform they had to build a new factory from the ground up. The 05 is light years ahead of the FOX platforms and I personally LOVE the car. Having said that I know enough to realize that I will NEVER compare my car to cars like the M3, Boxster, 911 etc. These car are light years ahead of the 05 just like the 05 is light year ahead of the Fox platform. As its totally unfair to compare the old Mustang with the new, likewise it is also unfair to compare a Ford Mustang with high end performance vehicles. They just ain't in the same league! Generally speaking I really dislike US built cars but I LOVE my car! One thing Ford did very well was design and build an AFFORDABLE 300HP Convertible that handles fairly well and appears to be fairly well built considering its a US built car. If they spent another 5K on the interior this car would draw customers from the Audi S4 market. I personally would have paid just under 40K for this car with a German Quality interior. Now for me to tell you that this car with a German Quality Interior has the capabilities to give an S4 Cabriolet a run for its money speaks volumes for what I think of the car!

I can compare them becuase the thread is about the racing versions of these cars, not the stock version (go back and check the thread title again in case you're confused). I won't debate over which is better in stock form since there is such a discprepency in cost.

 

[Kensho]

Excon...Scoreboard baby...scoreboard

 

[351CJ]

The Grand Am cup cars are far more similar to production cars than those jokes that NASCRAP races.

The starting point for a Grand Am Cup car is the EXACT same unibody that comes off the AAI production line. The driveline has to have the same arrangement as a production car as well as the suspension.

So there is a lot of production car in one of those race Mustangs as is a 3 series BMW.

I still don't understand why people get all upset when Ford takes a $18K Mustang and makes a $40K GT500 out of it but no one seems the slightest bit upset when BMW takes a $28K 325 and makes a $65K M3 out of it. Seems like a double standard to me.

 

[05Scott]

All I have to say is:

"HOW 'BOUT THEM MUSTANGS!!!"

 

[Omegalock]

Very impressive.
And honestly I care little if people say you can't compare these cars stock for stock.
In real world everyday driving (i.e. hillbilly straight line driving)it looks like it will be capable of being right there. Show me a man who goes whipping around turns at 70 miles an hour to show of his "skillz" and I'll show you a man who is going to eat it sooner or later and wind up in a ditch or wrapped around a tree.

 

[Svtpilot]

Excon you seemed to be confused. Unlike Nascar were the only thing the cars have in common with the street version is the name plate., grand am racing uses heavely modified versions of production cars. The Mustang we are refering has alot more incommon with your car you are driving then you seem to want to admit.