My 351W heads...whatcha think?

tmoss · Sep 27, 2006

I had to save them and take a lot of gamma out of them to see down the runners. The runner work lots OK, the bowl work is very ameturish imho. The big picture shows a valve stem that might have been nicked by work with the valves IN THE HEAD!!!

85_SS_302_Coupe · Sep 27, 2006

tmoss said:
I had to save them and take a lot of gamma out of them to see down the runners. The runner work lots OK, the bowl work is very ameturish imho. The big picture shows a valve stem that might have been nicked by work with the valves IN THE HEAD!!!

Well from as far in as i can see with the light, there's blending all the way to the valve seats. I don't know about the valve nicking part....wouldn't they have had to port the heads out before they could get those valves in?

thumper460 · Sep 27, 2006

yes usually that is the way port work is done!! for what you have in them and your idea.. those heads will make a lot of good power!! Usually there is a lot of work needed for the old W heads to work.. and buy the looks of the studs and plates and the Chevy valve loos like most od the basic work is done.. they should flow as well if not better than the GT40s.. and a heck of alot better than the stockers you have on there now... Have fun!!

Just me.............................

Thumper

tmoss · Sep 27, 2006

They may work well for you, but the valvue guide boss work I see in the big photo leaves something to be desired. Put em on and give em a spin........the back bottom of those bowls look untouched also. Not much of what I see in "professional" work. Doesn't mean it won't work for your combo.

Modular2v · Sep 27, 2006

tmoss and thumper are the ones to be listening to on oe/stock style porting! They see ALOT of it!

Modular2v · Sep 27, 2006

by the way, those are the same exact guideplates i have on mine

tmoss · Sep 27, 2006

Mike - just saw your sig - you won on Pinks???? Wish I got cable.

You need to post up that video on your site!!!!!!!!!!!

Hissing Cobra · Sep 27, 2006

sbftech said:
theres your difference, the setups are no where near identical. Back to back to back dyno pulls with an afr 185 vs the old D0's will show an increase of much more than you guys had.

Care to elaborate on this? How do you come up with this assumption? I was there and saw both dyno runs. The short blocks are IDENTICLE. We went with a bigger camshaft and alumunum heads on mine in an effort to get more power (and save on porting, which takes HOURS.) It didn't happen. Was I disappointed with my combo? Not in the least. Both cars run well on the street (on 93 octane) and they are driven thousands of miles each year.

Hissing Cobra · Sep 27, 2006

85_SS_302_Coupe said:
Now that's reassuring...what's his short block like? Is it just a 302 or was that stroked to something? Compression? Cam specs? Intake/carb? Hell what's his engine made of?? LOL.

Here's his combo. I decided to give you all the parts (there's no need to keep secrets.) Remember, both of us are running two carbs (Edelbrock 500's, no less.)

1965 289 block, bored .30 over and combined with 1968 302 crank and rods to create a 10:3:1 compressioned 306
Keith Black hypereutectic domed pistons
Wolverine solid lifter cam 236 INT/246 EXH @ .50, .512 INT/.536 EXH lift
1969 351W heads that were ported/polished and Chevy 1.94 valves installed
Mid 60’s Offenhauser dual quad intake manifold
Two Edelbrock 500 cfm carburetors
Mach under drive pulleys
Horsepower: 311 rear wheel horsepower/287 rear wheel torque
Performance: 12.40’s-12.60’s @ 108-110 mph (best is a 12.49 @ 110 with a 1.71 60’)

Ignition:

MSD 6AL ignition with soft touch rev control
MSD Billet Distributor
Stock coil

Exhaust:

Mac 1-¾” Long tube headers
Mac 2-½” Off road H-Pipe
Walker 2-½” CVX Cat-back exhaust with Ultra Flow mufflers (old school style)

Transmission:

Rebuilt factory T-5
Hurst shifter with chrome handle and nostalgic white shifter ball
Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch
Hayes adjustable clutch cable setup (old school style)
Ford Motorsport aluminum driveshaft

Rearend:

1988 Mustang GT 8.8 rearend
4.30 gears
Detroit Locker unit
Superior 31-spline axles

Suspension:

Energy suspension polyurethane engine mounts and transmission mount
Energy suspension polyurethane suspension bushings for entire front cross member section and front/rear swaybars
Competition Engineering 90/10 front drag struts and 50/50 rear drag shocks
Airlift rear airbag kit
Southside Machine lower control arms
Steeda adjustable upper control arms
sub frame connectors
Torque boxes reinforced with steel plates

Interior:

Factory gray interior
Autometer 5” tachometer
Autogage 2” oil pressure, voltmeter, and water temperature guages in custom fabricated guage panel

R2D2 · Sep 27, 2006

Hissing Cobra said:
Care to elaborate on this? How do you come up with this assumption? I was there and saw both dyno runs. The short blocks are IDENTICLE. We went with a bigger camshaft and alumunum heads on mine in an effort to get more power (and save on porting, which takes HOURS.) It didn't happen. Was I disappointed with my combo? Not in the least. Both cars run well on the street (on 93 octane) and they are driven thousands of miles each year.

I dont care about the short blocks being identical. If ported D0's were 5 hp short of an afr 185 then either the afr's are junk or you lack big time in your camshaft selection and tuning. Period! **** why would a guy spend 1500+ on a set of afr's when 30 year old 100 dollar D0 irons are 5hp short? Been in this game way too long. The problem is on your end not ona the afr's

wazazzle · Sep 27, 2006

here's a good link... heads calculator
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/630.shtml

Hissing Cobra · Sep 28, 2006

sbftech said:
I dont care about the short blocks being identical. If ported D0's were 5 hp short of an afr 185 then either the afr's are junk or you lack big time in your camshaft selection and tuning. Period! **** why would a guy spend 1500+ on a set of afr's when 30 year old 100 dollar D0 irons are 5hp short? Been in this game way too long. The problem is on your end not ona the afr's

You may have been in the game way too long but you still can't read. The $100.00 D0 irons are not 5hp short. They actually made more power. Also, I never said a bad thing about AFR. I love my heads and the quality of them is extremely impressive. The cam was picked by a person who has been building/machining engines EVERY DAMN DAY for the past 20 years. On the dyno, the air/fuel curve was perfect and that's saying something, considering that we had TWO carburetors to tune. Maybe you need to adjust your way of thinking AND your attitude.

poneypower89 · Sep 28, 2006

I don't understand why people argue with facts?

Either way, IMO if Thumper says u got something wroth while... then you more than likely do!

Hissing Cobra · Sep 28, 2006

poneypower89 said:
I don't understand why people argue with facts? Either way, IMO if Thumper says u got something wroth while... then you more than likely do!

I agree. I came into this thread trying to help someone out with FACTS and then someone else comes in and tries to bring the house down.

Thumper and T-Moss are very knowledgeable in these areas and they provides excellent advice when it comes to building small block Ford engines.

R2D2 · Sep 28, 2006

theres your answer folks, dont have 1300-1500 for some afr's or others, get some 100 dollar D0 irons, ported and they make more power than these silly aftermarket heads, sheez who woulda thought

thumper460 · Sep 28, 2006

we're good!!

TMOSS and Myself..... We rock!!

we just try and help.. usually we have been there and done that more than a few times....

Just me.................................................

Thumper

PS: Tom it was a set of my PORTED GT40s and a camshaft that won on
PINKS! The event was the yellow mustang against the red Stang with the Girl driving!! Yep.. that SC red stang is now in Orange Park!! LOL

Tpr

EDC · Sep 28, 2006

85_SS_302_Coupe said:
Well i don't know if this is the case, but if you hypothetically take 2 sets of heads with idential builds....basically cast the exact same set of heads, one set in aluminum and one set in iron....they both flow exactly the same and you put them on the exact engine build, the iron heads will make slightly more power because they absorb less heat from the cylinders than the aluminum heads do....and that robs the engine of power because you actually want a lot of heat in the cylinders. It's marginal at best but it's a fact.

That theory that iron heads make more power than identical aluminum heads has been disproven in real world testing. This exact topic was recently covered in a few threads over at Hardcore50.com and another very informative Ford website.

Also.... As for the ported DO0E heads outpowering the AFR 185 heads... I call total BS on this...

That AFR combo had to be so out of whack that anything short of a 1975 255 Mustang II with an AOD would have been a better choice.

Tom Moss knows my experience and what I've done with E7 and DO0E heads in the past, and unless there are serious budget constraints or some rediculas racing rules requiring the stock iron heads, a set of aftermarket heads will walk all over a set of OEM heads...

BTW... if these 351 DO0E heads are so great... I have a pair sitting on the shelf I'll let go for $500! I can pack them up right now!

Ed

R2D2 · Sep 28, 2006

EDC said:
That theory that iron heads make more power than identical aluminum heads has been disproven in real world testing. This exact topic was recently covered in a few threads over at Hardcore50.com and another very informative Ford website.

Also.... As for the ported DO0E heads outpowering the AFR 185 heads... I call total BS on this...

That AFR combo had to be so out of whack that anything short of a 1975 255 Mustang II with an AOD would have been a better choice.

Tom Moss knows my experience and what I've done with E7 and DO0E heads in the past, and unless there are serious budget constraints or some rediculas racing rules requiring the stock iron heads, a set of aftermarket heads will walk all over a set of OEM heads...

BTW... if these 351 DO0E heads are so great... I have a pair sitting on the shelf I'll let go for $500! I can pack them up right now!

Ed

Thanks Ed for bringing some sense back into this day dreamers delight

Modular2v · Sep 28, 2006

EDC said:
That theory that iron heads make more power than identical aluminum heads has been disproven in real world testing. This exact topic was recently covered in a few threads over at Hardcore50.com and another very informative Ford website.

Also.... As for the ported DO0E heads outpowering the AFR 185 heads... I call total BS on this...

That AFR combo had to be so out of whack that anything short of a 1975 255 Mustang II with an AOD would have been a better choice.

Tom Moss knows my experience and what I've done with E7 and DO0E heads in the past, and unless there are serious budget constraints or some rediculas racing rules requiring the stock iron heads, a set of aftermarket heads will walk all over a set of OEM heads...

BTW... if these 351 DO0E heads are so great... I have a pair sitting on the shelf I'll let go for $500! I can pack them up right now!

Ed

There is alot more that goes into building a combo than power, and most of this is budget and bang for the buck. . . . it is nice to find a set of 30yr old heads with every bell and whistle/port job done to them for cheap bolt on power as opposed to a 1300$ set of afr 185s! Are the aftermarket aluminum heads better for making power? Hell yes they are! Are they budget friendly? Depends on your budget!

R2D2 · Sep 28, 2006

Modular2v said:
There is alot more that goes into building a combo than power, and most of this is budget and bang for the buck. . . . it is nice to find a set of 30yr old heads with every bell and whistle/port job done to them for cheap bolt on power as opposed to a 1300$ set of afr 185s! Are the aftermarket aluminum heads better for making power? Hell yes they are! Are they budget friendly? Depends on your budget!

This is obvious but the arguement at hand was hissincobra's D0's outpowering his 185 head.

My 351W heads...whatcha think?

tmoss

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