Need motor advice...

Johnnb · Jan 22, 2006

This is awesome information as I am in the same boat as the LXracerguy and getting ready to make a decision as to the direction that I want to take my car in motor wise.

stock50LX · Jan 22, 2006

LXracerGuy said:
So what about something like this? I saw this on another board and thought something like this might be a lot of fun.

This is his add:

B&M 144 Roots Supercharger with pulleys for 5 and 7 pounds of boost (you will need to purchase $12.00 blower to manifold gasket from Jegs)
Keith Black Hypereutectic Pistons 8.6:1 with 62cc heads (4.060)
H Beam Connecting Rods
Prepped cylinder heads (58cc) 1.84/1.60 valves, ARP Screw In Studs, Comp Cams Guide Plates, port matched on both intake and exhaust, 3 angle valve job, hardened seats
Mallory Dual Point Mechanical Adv Distributor (small cap design needed to work with blower)
Crane Chromemoly Pushrods
Crane blower Cam (HOT!) and lifters 325/329 and .520/.526 (this cam thumps)
Crankshaft
double roller timing chain
Melling Hi volume oil pump
ARP Head Bolts
Everything listed has only idle time and maybe 50 miles on it...Never ran at dragstrip...Combo easily spins 7k on the tach...response is insane...sold car and funding a 351W set up these items will not work on it...

With forced induction your power is deternined more by the power adder than displacement.

I think the suggestion to buy the used heads and intake from Rootus is a good one. Those are quality parts (AFR heads and Edelbrock intake). Acquire them and use the remainder on the block. Just remember that the actual cost is always higher than planned so allow for cost overruns. Good luck

281pony · Jan 22, 2006

yep, your going to need all the gaskets, possibly rocker arms/pushrods (forget if he has those), rtv, oil/filters, headbolts, always something unexpected.

give yourself a few hundred dollar allowance. forgetting some other stuff even, lifters, timing chain/sprocket, oil pump, pump driveshaft. all could need replaced/some should be anyway.

good luck.

Johnnb · Jan 22, 2006

So everyone is talking about these stroker kits, who sells them?

281pony · Jan 22, 2006

go with chp or dss. rick91gt on this site also builds killer shortblocks. his are usually on more of a custom basis, but he has very competitive prices from my quotes ive gotten.

www.dssracing.com
www.rnhperformance.net
www.coasthigh.com

Johnnb · Jan 22, 2006

Oh sweet, those are great links man, I also tried to find rick91gt on here and it says that it's not a valid username.

BayBoss · Jan 23, 2006

You have many option but all i know is that i love my 347 stroker motor. I had it built for really cheap but the shop is in rhode island but the guy is very easy to deal with and over a year later still answers all of my questions. When you step up to a 347 it is a whole new engine and it performs nothing like a 302 it takes away all your tourque problems away unless you have a power adder on a 302. If i was you i woukld start with that and as you get more money you can modifie it, atleast thats what i did with mine and now i am trying to find a clutch that will hold. Well if you have any questions let me know i would be happy to give you this guys number, his prices are really good you can do a 347 with 4340 forged everything for around 2 grand.

281pony · Jan 23, 2006

rick91gt

http://forums.stangnet.com/member.php?find=lastposter&t=606532

dohcfox · Jan 23, 2006

Sorry for not following up on the modular swap question sooner.

I swapped a Mark VIII DOHC motor into my '89 LX for about $3000. In current form, my motor is making around 310 horsepower with the exhaust, cold air intake, '96-'98 Cobra manifold, and tubular headers. That is up from 290 in a Mark VIII LSC.

To make any modular motor work you need:

'96 and up k-member,
hydroboost brake booster,
any tranny with a modular bellhousing bolt pattern (your T5 will not work directly),
modular specific h or x pipe (the header/exhaust interfaces are different),
de-gas tank (for the radiator, also a modular specific component),
electric cooling fan,
modified power steering high pressure hose (easier than it sounds),
plus other bits and pieces that I am forgetting

To make the engine run the easy way:

All fuel injection components and a custom chip for the PCM that will shut off the Passive Anti Theft stuff,
fuel pump driver

To make it run the hard way:

All Passive anti theft components including original key, PATS antenna, SCIL module (interprets PATS signal from key) and all wiring pigtails for these components,
fuel pump driver

I went with the PATS setup to have an added measure of security for the car. I did that by hiding the original Mark VIII ignition switch (which contains the PATS antenna) in the car with the key in it. All I have to do is pull that key out and the car will not run.

This swap sounds like a lot, and it is a lot. I had a ball dropping my mod motor into my LX and even more fun driving it. It make great, useable horsepower, it revs like nobody's business, and it sounds distinctive. And believe it or not, the motor makes great torque at low revs, even with my 2.73 gears that I used to have. Just to make a comparison, my anemic (yes, it was stock...) 302 could not make it over I-90 without downshifting into fourth for the pass. My 4.6 (with 2.73 gearing) will stay in 5th from the Mount Baker tunnel all the way to Yakima, that and getting better gas mileage.

And keep in mind, once you've done all that a Navigator DOHC motor is just a modified h-pipe (well OK, intake manifold and cowl hood) away!

Take care everyone,

JT

dohcfox · Jan 23, 2006

And here is a great website to check out if you are interested:

http://www.modularfox.com/

take care,

JT

stock50LX · Jan 23, 2006

dohcfox said:
Sorry for not following up on the modular swap question sooner.

I swapped a Mark VIII DOHC motor into my '89 LX for about $3000. In current form, my motor is making around 310 horsepower with the exhaust, cold air intake, '96-'98 Cobra manifold, and tubular headers. That is up from 290 in a Mark VIII LSC.

To make any modular motor work you need:

'96 and up k-member,
hydroboost brake booster,
any tranny with a modular bellhousing bolt pattern (your T5 will not work directly),
modular specific h or x pipe (the header/exhaust interfaces are different),
de-gas tank (for the radiator, also a modular specific component),
electric cooling fan,
modified power steering high pressure hose (easier than it sounds),
plus other bits and pieces that I am forgetting

To make the engine run the easy way:

All fuel injection components and a custom chip for the PCM that will shut off the Passive Anti Theft stuff,
fuel pump driver

To make it run the hard way:

All Passive anti theft components including original key, PATS antenna, SCIL module (interprets PATS signal from key) and all wiring pigtails for these components,
fuel pump driver

I went with the PATS setup to have an added measure of security for the car. I did that by hiding the original Mark VIII ignition switch (which contains the PATS antenna) in the car with the key in it. All I have to do is pull that key out and the car will not run.

This swap sounds like a lot, and it is a lot. I had a ball dropping my mod motor into my LX and even more fun driving it. It make great, useable horsepower, it revs like nobody's business, and it sounds distinctive. And believe it or not, the motor makes great torque at low revs, even with my 2.73 gears that I used to have. Just to make a comparison, my anemic (yes, it was stock...) 302 could not make it over I-90 without downshifting into fourth for the pass. My 4.6 (with 2.73 gearing) will stay in 5th from the Mount Baker tunnel all the way to Yakima, that and getting better gas mileage.

And keep in mind, once you've done all that a Navigator DOHC motor is just a modified h-pipe (well OK, intake manifold and cowl hood) away!

Take care everyone,

JT

I'm impressed with the effort and demonstrated problem solving. I am curious what it will run at the track. You know that a few mods to the 5.o would've provided the same or better results than the swap, right?

dohcfox · Jan 23, 2006

I think that I would have had to spend at least $1500 (intake, heads, cam, exhaust) on my old 5.0 to make it put out 300hp at the crank (Check my figures here as I am not super experienced with pushrod motors). Even more would have to be spent to make it pull the RPM's my little 4.6 will (Not that RPM's alone say anything, it's just cool as hell to be able to pull 6500 without grenading the motor...). What is really neat about the modular 4 valve motors are the heads because you never really have to replace them for airflow improvement's sake. This means that these engines respond extremely well to forced induction, much more so than a stock 5.0 mill.

That and the swap is very unique. Either that or there are just a few of us out there stupid enough to try!

I think that other guys who have swapped Mark VIII motors into their Fox chassis stangs are running mid to high 12's with gears. That is hearsay though...

JT

Rootus · Jan 23, 2006

300 bhp isn't too hard, probably could do that for under $1500. A heads/cam/intake 5.0L is more like 350+ bhp. Technically the stock bottom end isn't supposed to be spun to 6500 RPM, but I did it more often than I should have . A 5.0L is actually a great motor to rev with, if you beef up the bottom end a bit and have a strong valvetrain.

I'll grant you that the DOHC swap is unique, though . And there is a lot to be said for that!

Personally my biggest qualm about doing the DOHC swap would be the loss of torque. Night & day, unfortunately, compared to a 5.0 -- the flip side of having a lot of head flow is that it's very weak below 3500 RPM. I'd give it a lot more than 4.10's to try and make up for that .

Dave

dohcfox · Jan 23, 2006

My solution to a 4.6's lack of torque is simple enough: Navigator!

I just have to find one first...

Here's the recipe:

Navigator longblock (330 cubes, heads that flow like nobody's business..)
Sullivan spider intake with EFI/throttle body adaptor
Standalone of choice, or tweeced EECV
Long-tube headers....

JT

loud 95 · Jan 24, 2006

stock50LX said:
I'm impressed with the effort and demonstrated problem solving. I am curious what it will run at the track. You know that a few mods to the 5.o would've provided the same or better results than the swap, right?

Jeff #1 at AFP has run his LX with a mark VIII engine(I believe) and a little spray, well into the 11's. Maybe he will chime in here and give more specifics...

gospeedgo · Jan 24, 2006

I doubt he will make an appearance here. With race season upon us, he is working long and hard on the shop car(s) and whoring on Headsupnw.com

But yes, stock short block from a Crown Vic, PI Heads and intake, a little spray, and 11's. The car is pretty light, and that helps, but even the little things, like engine setback dramatically help the fox. It weight transfers like a SOB. The drivability is freakin awesome. He is using a t-45 behind it. Cheap and effective.

Still dont know that I would recommend it for someone on a budget. Remember, even the little things like gaskets for the 4.6 are easily 2X what a 302 set costs. It is much easier to just rebuild what you have.

74courier · Jan 24, 2006

i saw an article in car craft a lil while ago they were making about 400fwhp with just a set of afr 165s and a weiand stealth intake and a stock cam. http://carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford/

dohcfox · Jan 24, 2006

gospeedgo said:
I doubt he will make an appearance here. With race season upon us, he is working long and hard on the shop car(s) and whoring on Headsupnw.com

But yes, stock short block from a Crown Vic, PI Heads and intake, a little spray, and 11's. The car is pretty light, and that helps, but even the little things, like engine setback dramatically help the fox. It weight transfers like a SOB. The drivability is freakin awesome. He is using a t-45 behind it. Cheap and effective.

Still dont know that I would recommend it for someone on a budget. Remember, even the little things like gaskets for the 4.6 are easily 2X what a 302 set costs. It is much easier to just rebuild what you have.

Interesting that you should mention engine setback. When I was installing the K-member (from a '99 V6 'vert, no less) in my Fox for the modular swap I became concerned that the motor was going to be resting on the firewall. It turned out that the heads are within one half inch! This necessitated the complete removal of the EGR tubing, sensor connectors, anything that was attached to the backs of the heads. Needless to say, very little of the motor actually sits forward of the spindles. One of the nice things about a modular motor in this regard is that all of the accesories for the motor sit flush with the front (undoubtably to facilitate FWD applications), unlike a 302 where everything hangs out in front. The block is an aluminum Teksid casting, identicle to a '96-'98 Cobra crank case. I used a T45 transmission with this swap as well.

LXracerGuy · Jan 25, 2006

WOW....I posted this and went out of town for a couple days and there is just tons of awesome information here.

I am looking at a totaled '03 Cobra that's for sale and I am kinda leaning to go modular if I can make everything work out properly.

dohcfox · Jan 26, 2006

LXracerGuy said:
WOW....I posted this and went out of town for a couple days and there is just tons of awesome information here.

I am looking at a totaled '03 Cobra that's for sale and I am kinda leaning to go modular if I can make everything work out properly.

Oh my golly?? Really? Yikes! That would be quite a deal if you could. If you did end up picking up that '03 Cobra, the swap details would really be the same as any other modular swap. The only other issues you would be up against would be that the '03 Cobra has returnless fuel injection so you would have to make changes in the fuel lines to accomodate for this. Also, the alternator, which is mounted on the side of the motor towards the driver's side, interferes with the sway bar mount (I think), and you would have to fiddle with that. Lots of folks at modularfox.com have experience with the '03-'04 Cobra to fox body swap so you will not be lacking for advice.

Take care and let me know how I can help,

JT

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