Need Power Steering Advice

98Fauxbra · Oct 22, 2008

Hey Guys,

I am working on my Father-In-Law's 1970 Mach 1 with him. We have a situation with the steering and I am trying to decide the best course of action to take. The power steering has a dead spot (about 1/4 turn) right in the middle. I had my shop check it out and they took some of the slop out with the steering box. I have driven it, and after a few minutes, I don't even notice it anymore. My FIL doesn't like it at all. My shop said that it is just 38 year old worn parts. Now I am torn. Do I replace the the power steering box, idler and pitman arms, tie rods and so forth or should I go with a rack and pinion system? So here is my question:

Have any of you switched to the rack and pinion steering? If so, which one? I have seen the Randall's Rack and it is really nice, but pretty pricey. I know that you have to pay to play. Also, for an occasional driver does the rack and pinion make that much difference? I know that one of the Mustang Rags ran an article recently that talked about many of the "Bolt On" rack and pinion systems but I cannot locate it at the house (AARRGGHH I know it is there somewhere!)

Any advice that can be given will be appreciated! I need to get this issue corrected so that my FIL will drive the car again. Either that or he just needs to let me drive it all the time!!!

Thanks,
Bryan

zookeeper · Oct 22, 2008

The power steering in my '68 (essentially the same as yours) is tight and leak free, so I personally feel that rebuilding the stock system is a good choice. Will it feel as good as a rack? No, but it won't cost the same as a rack, and 20 years from now, you'll still be able to buy parts for it.

BarnStang · Oct 22, 2008

IMO, the best rack is the TCP rack, but you will really pay for that one.
Total Control Products

+1 on rebuilding the stock system. Much cheaper. Here is a site that will help you out...
http://www.stangerssite.com/

I've rebuilt several control valves with no leaks. As long at the valve inside is not pitted and worn, it can be rebuilt. Check stangers site out. I have not rebuilt the slave cylinder yet, haven't come accross one that leaked yet I guess...
THe rest of the parts will need replaced. I have a source for steering boxes that we have used twice with no problems. Steering Box and Steering Rack from Car Steering Wholesale I think this is it.
THink about upgrading some of the suspension-roller spring perches, roller upper A arms, see these web sites:
DazeCars, Roller Spring Perches
or
Opentracker Racing Products

Rusty67 · Oct 22, 2008

If its a real Mach1 then please don't put a rack in it. There are enough I6 or low end V8 cars out there to mod the hell out of but the Machs were special. Besides, like you said, its only occasionally driven and a new stock system will feel just fine for that.

If I had to guess it sounds like the control valve has an issue. The steering box might also need a rebuild. The guy at stangersite has a really good reputation, I've never heard anything bad about him.

I think it will cost you about 200 bux for new inner/outer tie rods and an idler arm. If I remember correctly, the pitman arm is a non-wear part for PS cars. The ball joint is in the control valve. I think to have the box rebuilt by the guy on stangersite its like 400 bux ? and a rebuild on the control valve is like 100-200. You are at about 800 dollars for brand new/rebuilt parts and no modification to the car necissary. I don't think you can buy a (good) rack kit for less then 1200 bux and then you gota deal with installing it.

Just my 2 cents.

yeloxr7 · Oct 23, 2008

I have been very happy with my Borgeson steering gearbox. Borgeson Universal U-Joints and Steering Components

JonK · Oct 23, 2008

I had stanger rebuild my control valve ($90) and power cylinder($65 w/bushings/boot) and couldn't be happier. They were a greasy mess when I shipped them (cleaned/scraped as best i could) and came back like new, painted factory color at NO extra charge. He emailed letting me know when they were shipping, etc. excellent to deal with.

I will be sending my gearbox next ($140), all of these prices are if you don't have damaged internals of course, but he is reasonable on the replacement pieces also. I redid my PS and tierods, etc. for ~$300 I bet and don't have a drip (new Gates PS hoses). Be careful with adjusting the gearbox, you can get it too tight and it'll wear fast, I replaced the grease with fresh and that took the play in the wheel from 1" to 1/2".
Jon

RGS0907 · Nov 30, 2009

zookeeper said:
The power steering in my '68 (essentially the same as yours) is tight and leak free, so I personally feel that rebuilding the stock system is a good choice. Will it feel as good as a rack? No, but it won't cost the same as a rack, and 20 years from now, you'll still be able to buy parts for it.

I am always amazed when I read that some people can manage to make the OE power steering work. I've been messing around with mine for 30 years and never seem to be able to get rid of the 1-2 inches of play at dead center. I rebuilt everything including the box & even found an OEM power steering control valve & still have a white knuckle ride on the highway.

2+2GT · Nov 30, 2009

RGS0907 said:
I am always amazed when I read that some people can manage to make the OE power steering work. I've been messing around with mine for 30 years and never seem to be able to get rid of the 1-2 inches of play at dead center. I rebuilt everything including the box & even found an OEM power steering control valve & still have a white knuckle ride on the highway.

Something's not right, then, because your granny should be able to cruise the highway with one hand on the wheel. Dead play in the center means either the gearbox is way too loose (not likely, if you were careful) or the spool is travelling too far in the valve, which is likely.

Hey, is the rag joint tight?

65ShelbyClone · Nov 30, 2009

RGS0907 said:
I am always amazed when I read that some people can manage to make the OE power steering work. I've been messing around with mine for 30 years and never seem to be able to get rid of the 1-2 inches of play at dead center. I rebuilt everything including the box & even found an OEM power steering control valve & still have a white knuckle ride on the highway.

I never drove it with PS, but my car had it when I bought it. I put a PS delete in it and it still has ~2" of play in the wheel. It's not enough to bother me, though; my last classic had ~6" of play and a non-GT/non-PS slow ratio box.

67CoupeDriva · Dec 1, 2009

So not to hijack the thread, but has anyone added power steering to a manual steering car? I picked up the parts to do so on my '67 coupe (289, 3 sp) over time. I haven't evaluated everything and I'm sure there will need to be some freshening up of some of those parts but they are there in a box.

I'm curious about various thoughts on adding factory style PS vs. the manual box (worth it? anyone done it?).
/end hijack

2+2GT · Dec 1, 2009

67CoupeDriva said:
So not to hijack the thread, but has anyone added power steering to a manual steering car? I picked up the parts to do so on my '67 coupe (289, 3 sp) over time. I haven't evaluated everything and I'm sure there will need to be some freshening up of some of those parts but they are there in a box.

I'm curious about various thoughts on adding factory style PS vs. the manual box (worth it? anyone done it?).
/end hijack

Yep. The only drawback to doing it dealer-style is if you have a 5-turn gearbox, you'll still have the same slow response when turning the wheel. Not critical, since the dealer-installed PS worked this way, but not optimum.

You'll probably want to recondition the valve assembly before installing it, the above mentioned looseness is probably caused by none-too-tight valves.

pabear89 · Dec 1, 2009

To 98Fauxbra, the control valve is in need of refreshing to remove the play you have.
Just follow the installment guide in measureing and pin placement when you replace it.

To RCS0907, are you missing the pin or misaligned the control valve?
this will cause the trouble you have with wheel wandering, it take excessive whell movement to accuate the control valve for fluid movement to slave cyl.

chockostang · Dec 1, 2009

I'm guessing the control is "Screwing on the Centerlink" Rotating with each steering wheel movement as pabaear has stated.

These systems work great!

Problem comes with 40 year old, worn out parts not working correctly--Leaking.

Now the next Question, Do you still have the 40 year old tires on your Classic?? The same Wood Hard rubber?? The seals in the Control, Cylinder, have the same sealing power of these tires you don't have on.

The parts ( Brass Sleeve, Ball Stud, Seats) Actuate many times daily to achieve steering, Times/ multiply this by 40 years, all wears.

Now folks give the Vintage steering a bad rap?? Why? Rack and Pinion, NO WAY!

Dan

2+2GT · Dec 1, 2009

chockostang said:
These systems work great!

Problem comes with 40 year old, worn out parts not working correctly--Leaking.

The parts ( Brass Sleeve, Ball Stud, Seats) Actuate many times daily to achieve steering, Times/ multiply this by 40 years, all wears.

Now folks give the Vintage steering a bad rap?? Why? Rack and Pinion, NO WAY!

The only criticism that hold any water is the Bendix PS has such high boost that it makes steering too easy. I have to wonder, though, if this comes from using high pressure reman pumps in performance cars intended for lower pressure pumps. Perhaps there's a way to assure the pumps produce only as much as they need to.

The 64-82 Corvette had the same Bendix system as the 65-70 Mustang.

Rusty67 · Dec 1, 2009

2+2GT said:
The only criticism that hold any water is the Bendix PS has such high boost that it makes steering too easy. I have to wonder, though, if this comes from using high pressure reman pumps in performance cars intended for lower pressure pumps. Perhaps there's a way to assure the pumps produce only as much as they need to.

The 64-82 Corvette had the same Bendix system as the 65-70 Mustang.

You can put a regulator in the PS pressure line but it may cause the pump to heat up/fail prematurely.

2+2GT · Dec 1, 2009

Rusty67 said:
You can put a regulator in the PS pressure line but it may cause the pump to heat up/fail prematurely.

It's my understanding that different pumps produced different pressure levels, due to internal differences. I'd like to know if this is something that can be determined by examination of the pump, or even adjusted via the pressure valve.

Rusty67 · Dec 1, 2009

I've never seen a stock pump with an adjustable pressure valve. I know KRC sells a pump that has an adjustable valve and a remote reservoir.

2+2GT · Dec 1, 2009

Rusty67 said:
I've never seen a stock pump with an adjustable pressure valve. I know KRC sells a pump that has an adjustable valve and a remote reservoir.

The valve is internal and cannot be seen with the reservoir installed. The parts sticking out the upper left side in this view are the regulator.

pabear89 · Dec 1, 2009

yeloxr7 said:
I have been very happy with my Borgeson steering gearbox. Borgeson Universal U-Joints and Steering Components

Not manual friendly with stock bellcrank clutch, but I will be using one in my 68 auto and tossing out the manual rack that's in it.

pabear89 · Dec 1, 2009

zookeeper said:
The power steering in my '68 (essentially the same as yours) is tight and leak free, so I personally feel that rebuilding the stock system is a good choice. Will it feel as good as a rack? No, but it won't cost the same as a rack, and 20 years from now, you'll still be able to buy parts for it.

Just to poke fun at you Zoo... Are you sure we will be able to buy parts for these cars in 20 yrs?

But I have to agree with you on rebuilding to stock system on the Orig posters Mach1.

I have a manual rack in the 68 and while it is close to as smooth as the power assist steering on the 70 at speed, I still like the feel of the stock unit.

I will be giving the Borgeson power unit a try in the 68 just because it is an Automatic and don't have to run Hyd clutch.
But I like the more solidness of running a box over a rack.
Ever see what happens to a rack if you smack a curb?

And I would like to see a matching car with a rack out run my power assist in a cone course.

Need Power Steering Advice

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