Need Thoughts On Cranking Issue

jraap82 · Feb 6, 2017

I am having cranking issues on my 89 GT. I just put the rebuilt motor in and had it running yesterday to get the timing right. Last night I went out to start troubleshooting the rough idle and it wouldn't crank. Today I replaced the starter solenoid on the fender, a new starter cable and had the starter and battery tested. Both tested good. After reinstalling everything it still won't turn over. I can hear the starter pop out and engage but it won't turn the motor over. I read that the engine could possibly be seized up so I removed all the plugs and had zero issues turning it over by hand. The starter thats in it is a high torque mini. My question is, does this sound like a bad starter? If so, what starter do you recommend that's not going to break the bank? I'm wanting some opinions before I go out and spend the money on a new starter and potentially have the same issue with it. Oh, one more thing, I am getting a code 67 on the CEL. I checked the clutch safety switch and whoever had the car before me bypassed it. I'm thinking it has nothing to do with the car not cranking though because up to this point it would fire right up. Any insight is much appreciated!

General karthief · Feb 6, 2017

I will summon @jrichker to post his no crank checklist, someday I figuare out how to do it myself so I won't have to bother him, although I don't think he minds.
First thing I would do is check voltage at the starter then grounds, bad connections are the biggest problems.

jraap82 · Feb 6, 2017

karthief said:
I will summon @jrichker to post his no crank checklist, someday I figuare out how to do it myself so I won't have to bother him, although I don't think he minds.
First thing I would do is check voltage at the starter then grounds, bad connections are the biggest problems.

I appreciate the response. I have his checklist saved as a bookmark already though lol. All my connections are good with the exception of the ground behind the engine. I am planning on cleaning that up tomorrow after work. Is it a possibility that a starter tests good but when it's under the load of trying to crank the motor it's bad?

Noobz347 · Feb 6, 2017

No need to bother jr, he has these instructions published.

Here is a link to The Technical Thread Index at the top of the 5oh technical forum: http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/technical-thread-how-to-index.808661/

You find a link to the Surging Idle Checklist inside:
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/help-me-create-the-surging-idle-checklist.698148/

There's lots of great stuff in that index.

Noobz347 · Feb 6, 2017

jraap82 said:
I appreciate the response. I have his checklist saved as a bookmark already though lol. All my connections are good with the exception of the ground behind the engine. I am planning on cleaning that up tomorrow after work. Is it a possibility that a starter tests good but when it's under the load of trying to crank the motor it's bad?

Yes. You can have a weak starter or one that heat soaks and quits altogether, until it's cool again.

jraap82 · Feb 6, 2017

Noobz347 said:
Yes. You can have a weak starter or one that heat soaks and quits altogether, until it's cool again.

Ok, thanks, I'm guessing it somehow got weak then because it's definitely not hot. Is there any way to verify this? I'll read through the no crank checklist in the mean time to be sure I didn't miss anything.

jraap82 · Feb 6, 2017

Noobz347 said:
No need to bother jr, he has these instructions published.

Here is a link to The Technical Thread Index at the top of the 5oh technical forum: http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/technical-thread-how-to-index.808661/

You find a link to the Surging Idle Checklist inside:
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/help-me-create-the-surging-idle-checklist.698148/

There's lots of great stuff in that index.

Thank you for posting the links! There is definitely a ton of good info in there. I'll definitely keep looking into the issue I'm having before purchasing a new starter.

Noobz347 · Feb 6, 2017

jraap82 said:
Ok, thanks, I'm guessing it somehow got weak then because it's definitely not hot. Is there any way to verify this? I'll read through the no crank checklist in the mean time to be sure I didn't miss anything.

You could take it to someplace that rebuilds starters to have them check it out. Some parts stores also have this capability. It's more common to find stores that can spin an alternator.

jraap82 · Feb 6, 2017

Noobz347 said:
You could take it to someplace that rebuilds starters to have them check it out. Some parts stores also have this capability. It's more common to find stores that can spin an alternator.

Good call about finding a place that rebuilds them, I didn't think about that. I had it tested at a big name parts store today but all they can do is verify it pops out and spins, not if it'll have enough power to spin the flywheel. I'll look for a shop around here tomorrow and see what they say. Worse case I just buy a new one and if it acts the same way see if I can return it.

General karthief · Feb 6, 2017

jraap82 said:
Ok, thanks, I'm guessing it somehow got weak then because it's definitely not hot. Is there any way to verify this? I'll read through the no crank checklist in the mean time to be sure I didn't miss anything.

A voltage drop test will help but to really check out the starter you need to do a load test, I use one at a repair shop, I have no idea how it works all I do is hookup a couple cables and the machine does all the important stuff, I think the checklist covers it.

jraap82 · Feb 6, 2017

karthief said:
A voltage drop test will help but to really check out the starter you need to do a load test, I use one at a repair shop, I have no idea how it works all I do is hookup a couple cables and the machine does all the important stuff, I think the checklist covers it.

I was just reading about the voltage drop test too, I'll definitely try that out tomorrow as well as see if there's a repair shop around here that can tell me what's really going on with it.

Noobz347 · Feb 6, 2017

With your starter installed, a voltage drop test should be more useful than the parts store check.

jraap82 · Feb 6, 2017

Noobz347 said:
With your starter installed, a voltage drop test should be more useful than the parts store check.

Thank you, I'll post the results of it tomorrow when I do it.

jraap82 · Feb 7, 2017

So, I just started the voltage drop test and with the multimeter on the battery terminals it reads 12.6, then when we try to crank it, the volts drop to 7.6. I also cranked it over with the belt off the crank pulley and it started up. I'm assuming the battery is bad? If I remember correctly, it shouldn't drop below 9.6 when cranking.

Noobz347 · Feb 7, 2017

From an ASE practice test:

A current draw test is performed after the battery has been checked and found to be fully charged and in good condition. The starting system should also be visually inspected for any physical defects or loose connections. Bring the engine to normal operating temperature before performing this test. This is because a cold engine requires more current than a warm engines does.

Use a VAT-40 or an appropriate clamp-on ammeter/voltage meter for slow start and no start troubleshooting. This test requires the specifications for the vehicle being tested.

1. Connect the tester leads to the correct positive and negative terminals and then connect the clamp-on amps pickup around one of the battery cables.
2. Set the voltage meter to Int 18V and adjust ammeter to read zero.
3. Disable the fuel or ignition so the engine will not start during test.
4. Crank the engine as you observe the testers ammeter and voltmeter.
5. Never crank engine for more than 15 seconds and allow the starter to cool for 2 minutes between cranks.

If you are using a separate ammeter and voltmeter instead of a VAT-40 the key is to observe the voltage and the amperage at the same time. The voltage should remain at or above specifications while cranking the engine. High current draw and low cranking speed indicate a faulty starter or possible engine problems. Low cranking speed and low current draw indicate excessive resistance in the starter circuit. Always check specifications and remember the bigger the engine the higher the current draw.

Slow cranking and high current draw typically indicate worn bearings or bushings inside the starter. Worn bushings will result in an off-center armature. This may result in poling and can throw off the alignment of the starters magnetic fields.

jraap82 · Feb 7, 2017

Noobz347 said:
From an ASE practice test:

A current draw test is performed after the battery has been checked and found to be fully charged and in good condition. The starting system should also be visually inspected for any physical defects or loose connections. Bring the engine to normal operating temperature before performing this test. This is because a cold engine requires more current than a warm engines does.

Use a VAT-40 or an appropriate clamp-on ammeter/voltage meter for slow start and no start troubleshooting. This test requires the specifications for the vehicle being tested.

1. Connect the tester leads to the correct positive and negative terminals and then connect the clamp-on amps pickup around one of the battery cables.
2. Set the voltage meter to Int 18V and adjust ammeter to read zero.
3. Disable the fuel or ignition so the engine will not start during test.
4. Crank the engine as you observe the testers ammeter and voltmeter.
5. Never crank engine for more than 15 seconds and allow the starter to cool for 2 minutes between cranks.

If you are using a separate ammeter and voltmeter instead of a VAT-40 the key is to observe the voltage and the amperage at the same time. The voltage should remain at or above specifications while cranking the engine. High current draw and low cranking speed indicate a faulty starter or possible engine problems. Low cranking speed and low current draw indicate excessive resistance in the starter circuit. Always check specifications and remember the bigger the engine the higher the current draw.

Slow cranking and high current draw typically indicate worn bearings or bushings inside the starter. Worn bushings will result in an off-center armature. This may result in poling and can throw off the alignment of the starters magnetic fields.

Thank you, but this is pretty much like reading a different language to me lol. I don't have an ammeter or VAT-40 and can't get the engine to normal operating temp. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's basically saying that it still may not necessarily be a bad battery?

Noobz347 · Feb 7, 2017

jraap82 said:
Thank you, but this is pretty much like reading a different language to me lol. I don't have an ammeter or VAT-40 and can't get the engine to normal operating temp. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's basically saying that it still may not necessarily be a bad battery?

12.6 static a hair on the low side but not crippling. What's your voltage drop when you try to drank the engine cold?

jraap82 · Feb 7, 2017

Noobz347 said:
12.6 static a hair on the low side but not crippling. What's your voltage drop when you try to drank the engine cold?

When we crank the engine the battery drops to 7.6 - 7.9

General karthief · Feb 7, 2017

Do you have a battery charger, not that I think it will fix it but you should charge a battery before testing, off hand I'd say you need to start (pun intended) with a new battery, how old is yours

jraap82 · Feb 7, 2017

karthief said:
Do you have a battery charger, not that I think it will fix it but you should charge a battery before testing, off hand I'd say you need to start (pun intended) with a new battery, how old is yours

Lol, yeah, i definitely need to start! Its been a year in the making so far and really want to get this thing running!! Yes, I have a charger and fully charged it last night. The battery was purchased in January of last year right before I picked up the car in February. I looked into the warranty but it has to be the original purchaser with receipt. When my neighbor gets home I'm going to see if I can borrow the battery from his nova to see if it changes anything. I checked resistance at all my grounds too and none of them are over .2 ohms.

Need Thoughts On Cranking Issue

jraap82

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

jraap82

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

jraap82

jraap82

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

jraap82

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

jraap82

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

jraap82

jraap82

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

jraap82

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

jraap82

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

jraap82

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wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

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