New Edge vs S197

rabidscoobie · Jul 2, 2008

CobraRed_96_GT said:
Let's not unbury this hatchet

Well Ive beaten a couple in mine,so.....

BurningRubber · Jul 2, 2008

Close race depending on a few things.

Stock for stock the 05+ is a stronger car, they hook harder than any stock 99-04, and if its an auto they have one hell of a transmission compared to our auto's.

Comparing GOOD drivers here, and 5 speeds...

BONE stock 05's have ran 13.4 - 13.5, possibly better but I dont pay that close attention.

BONE stock 99-04's normally run 13.9-14.3. One of the fastest I have heard of was a 13.8 dead stock.

Now, keep in mind that an 05+ with intake/exhaust/gears/tune is well into the 12's. A 99-04 with comprable mods is lucky to be lower than a 13.3 - 13.4 with a good driver.

They are a superior car. IF you race one and win, chances are you encountered a bad driver, or you have a mod advantage.

BLKsteeda · Jul 2, 2008

I ran a bone stock 05 with my 01...at the time I had full bolt-ons + cams pushing 285rwhp and pulled about a car

mrvax · Jul 2, 2008

Old rule of thumb is you need about 10rwhp to overcome 100 pounds of added weight. It also dovetails with one tenth of a second in the quarter mile. It probably on works with cars under 500HP/5000LBS.

4 CRUZEN · Jul 2, 2008

Myself and an 06 Convert. (mine is an 04), both stock, played a little catch up one day and I could pull away from it or pull up on it depending on who was where? Both were also Auto's.

Gearbanger 101 · Jul 2, 2008

mogs01gt said:
For having around 40 more hp, they typically do not trap much higher. 1 or 2 mph difference which can easily be gained or lost by the driver.

The trap speed really doesn't tell the entire story on this one though. That 1-3mph difference in a car that’s that much heavier tells me there’s a lot more going on under the hood that we give them credit for. The power band of the 3V is far broader than the one with the 2V and will best it at any RPM.....especially near the upper ranges of the tach.

I was surprised when I took my first S197 for a drive last year. It was stock as a rock with about 12,000km on it and although it hand no where near the bottom and mid range torque my Cougar had, I'm sure it would have hung with it on a highway pass. No stock or even modest bolt on 2V GT I have ever driven, or been in has made me doubt my car at any point before.

Those 3V heads really make efficient use of the paltry 4.6L's that Ford gave us to work with.

mogs01gt · Jul 2, 2008

Gearbanger 101 said:
The trap speed really doesn't tell the entire story on this one though. That 1-3mph difference in a car that’s that much heavier tells me there’s a lot more going on under the hood that we give them credit for. The power band of the 3V is far broader than the one with the 2V and will best it at any RPM.....especially near the upper ranges of the tach.

I was surprised when I took my first S197 for a drive last year. It was stock as a rock with about 12,000km on it and although it hand no where near the bottom and mid range torque my Cougar had, I'm sure it would have hung with it on a highway pass. No stock or even modest bolt on 2V GT I have ever driven, or been in has made me doubt my car at any point before.

Those 3V heads really make efficient use of the paltry 4.6L's that Ford gave us to work with.

I thought we were talking about street racing. Only driver ability and trap speed matters on the street.

Jbauer · Jul 2, 2008

I dont know about all these sources. S197 = 123lbs more than sn95 new edge. it's not as heavy as it looks. I drove one, to be honest i hate new mustangs. I respect the engine it kicks any previous engines ass, but i don't like the car. It doesn't feel as good as a new edge, the new edge just feels like a muscle car, i can't even feel the torque when i drive a new mustang. I'd buy a GTO or something else american before i bought the new mustang and i am honestly a all out Ford or nothing guy. The new mustang killed it for me. Until they get something better, a 99-04 or 302 Hatch is the only mustang i will ever touch.

Gearbanger 101 · Jul 2, 2008

mogs01gt said:
I thought we were talking about street racing?

Not if we want to keep this thread open, we aren't.

mogs01gt said:
Only driver ability and trap speed matters on the street.

I both agree and disagree with you. An engine that pulls hard in the mid and upper rages as well as the bottom end will certainly be a comfort to those lesser drivers who blow the launch and need to play catch up. Not to mention if you're going from a mid range punch (which although IMO is a really stupid way to race, seems to be the popular practice now a days) that additional power under the curve will really make itself known.

Althought the S197 produces both more bottom end torque and begins to do so at lower levels of the power band, it really isn't noticed by comparison because of the additional weight it's lugging around. The fact that it has the ability to continue to break past that weight disadvantage and continue to out pull the 2V all the way to top end makes them quite the contender.

Add bolt ons to either car and the potential for the 3V just increases exponentially by comparison.

twogts4us · Jul 2, 2008

CobraRed_96_GT said:
Let's not unbury this hatchet

rabidscoobie said:
Well Ive beaten a couple in mine,so.....

LOL - I with ya bro - have no fear, the Mach is here.

Stark77 · Jul 2, 2008

was reading about a three valve swap that be done on a GT - the coversion kit comes from Logan motorsports. This could be an expensive idea

mransr · Jul 2, 2008

Jbauer said:
I dont know about all these sources. S197 = 123lbs more than sn95 new edge.

I don't know about that...every "same source" look-up I've ever seen shows 200-250lbs different between a 99-04GT and a 05-07GT...typically the spec weight is 3273lbs for the New Edge GT and 3483lbs for the S197 GT...

I don't like the big, heavy (feeling) S197's...but I sure wouldn't mind having one of those 3V's in my car

03TrueBlue · Jul 2, 2008

Ok I know we were talking GTs but I found this video of someone testing a Shelby GT500 against a 03 Cobra. Its not a bad video and shows the difference between the new and old same basically equipped cars.

http://www.mustangblog.com/index.php/2008/video-2008-shelby-gt500-vs-2003-svt-cobra/

eliteJAE · Jul 2, 2008

03TrueBlue said:
Ok I know we were talking GTs but I found this video of someone testing a Shelby GT500 against a 03 Cobra. Its not a bad video and shows the difference between the new and old same basically equipped cars.

http://www.mustangblog.com/index.php/2008/video-2008-shelby-gt500-vs-2003-svt-cobra/

i was JUST about to post this, you beat me to it. I'm sure these cars are a bit different from a new edge GT and an S197 GT but it does go to show that HP isn't EVERYTHING (although i sure wish i had more )

Gearbanger 101 · Jul 3, 2008

03TrueBlue said:
Ok I know we were talking GTs but I found this video of someone testing a Shelby GT500 against a 03 Cobra. Its not a bad video and shows the difference between the new and old same basically equipped cars.

http://www.mustangblog.com/index.php/2008/video-2008-shelby-gt500-vs-2003-svt-cobra/

Interesting...I would have thought the IRS rear suspension of the Cobra would have given it a clear advantage around the track....especially the way that Shelby was bouncing around. Then again, I've also heard with a little seat time, Shelby's owners are running into the 12.3-12.4 range in stock trim, so I guess that comparison isn't quite as decisive as they thought.

I wonder if that Cobra was truely stock or not? Unless those guys knew what to look for (and by the sounds of it, they didn't) it would be pretty easy to sneak 50rwhp worth of mods past them and them not know it.

03TrueBlue · Jul 3, 2008

Only thing I can say about the quarter mile times is that they were not using a real drag strip so Im sure traction for the shelby was more limited, but kinda shows what it would be like on the street.

EPIK · Jul 3, 2008

twogts4us said:
LOL - I with ya bro - have no fear, the Mach is here.

I wish I could even get a race with an S197. Everytime I come across one its usually a 45+ year old lady driving & they dont even look over....

Im very confident my Mach will win....

I actually got in a huge argument in a thread about this same topic a few months back. Thats what CorbaRed was referring too earlier.

CobraRed_96_GT · Jul 3, 2008

EPIK said:
I wish I could even get a race with an S197. Everytime I come across one its usually a 45+ year old lady driving & they dont even look over....

Im very confident my Mach will win....

I actually got in a huge argument in a thread about this same topic a few months back. Thats what CorbaRed was referring too earlier.

your mach and a stock mach are two very different things. I'd love for you to serve me my own ass just so i could breathe in the yummy 4V fumes as you dust meView attachment 312388

Edit: Wait, that came out different

EPIK · Jul 3, 2008

CobraRed_96_GT said:
your mach and a stock mach are two very different things. I'd love for you to serve me my own ass just so i could breathe in the yummy 4V fumes as you dust meView attachment 312387

Edit: Wait, that came out different

LOL!!! That did come out a bit weird

I guess your right though, mine is far from stock. It has about 40rwhp/rwtq over a stock S197....

rabidscoobie · Jul 3, 2008

Mines stock except for the flows and I beat them..so I have no doubts that you would have no problems dusting one....

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