New Guy With An Oil Problem

MrSkin · Jul 3, 2017

Hi Everyone! New to this site but read a lot of what goes on here. Site is great and a ton of info. Thanks. I'm baffled and need an answer do hoping I can get an answer. First off I am not an owner of a Stang even though I love 'em. I own a '71 Maverick Grabber running a 351 C. After a 10+ year rotisserie restoration car is finished. I replaced the oil pan because it was dented when purchased and my question comes. Why can I only get 4 quarts of oil and a 12oz. Bottle of zddp in the pan and is a hair over full on the dip stick? Is the wrong stick in the car or was I shipped the wrong pan? But what 351 would only hold 4 1/3 quarts oil. I'm stumped. Very good pressure at 80lbs. And about 40 on idle. I'm confused?

Davedacarpainter · Jul 3, 2017

Welcome to Stangnet.

I wish I could tell you. Let me move your thread to the Classic section. Someone there will know.

Good to have you with us.

MrSkin · Jul 4, 2017

Perfect..thanks

tos · Jul 5, 2017

Are you allowing for the oil filter? Depending on which filter you use it could hold a quart itself. 1 Quart in filter + 4qts in pan would show full on dipstick then add your 12oz zddp would show a little over full?

MrSkin · Jul 5, 2017

Thanks for the reply. So, I failed to mention above that with such tight restraint in the engine bay I needed to use a small filter...smaller than what is called far and I am wondering if this is the true issue. Filter is a Fram 3692 and is much smaller than the factory filter. Right now is have to say I'm 3/16 above full with the 4 quarts and a bottle of Trickflow ZDDP.

tos · Jul 6, 2017

I know that filter and its pretty small. Add the fact that it practically mounts on its side which doesn't allow it to retain much oil. it would be lucky to hold 3 or 4 oz. I don't think I would worry too much and allow the dipstick to read a little high instead of right on the full line. If its not running hot or pushing oil out the dipstick tube then I think you'll be fine. I would however think about swapping the filter in between actual oil changes since you have less filtering capacity.

MrSkin · Jul 6, 2017

Awesome. I kinda' figured that was the problem. The dip stick is correct for a '70 351C and I was kind of sure I received the correct pan.I wanted to keep the engine bay true to what it may have looked like if Ford did this but would you considered a oil filter relocation system and/or a cooler?
Thanks-Denny

tos · Jul 7, 2017

I would agree that a relocation kit would be a good idea. Don't know that I would install a cooler although It surely wouldn't hurt especially if you plan on doing parades, road racing or something similar where you might need that extra cooling.

lincoln58 · Jul 8, 2017

MrSkin said:
Hi Everyone! New to this site but read a lot of what goes on here. Site is great and a ton of info. Thanks. I'm baffled and need an answer do hoping I can get an answer. First off I am not an owner of a Stang even though I love 'em. I own a '71 Maverick Grabber running a 351 C. After a 10+ year rotisserie restoration car is finished. I replaced the oil pan because it was dented when purchased and my question comes. Why can I only get 4 quarts of oil and a 12oz. Bottle of zddp in the pan and is a hair over full on the dip stick? Is the wrong stick in the car or was I shipped the wrong pan? But what 351 would only hold 4 1/3 quarts oil. I'm stumped. Very good pressure at 80lbs. And about 40 on idle. I'm confused?

the Boss 351 engine held 6 quarts compared to the non-cj held 5 quarts. the only difference is the markings on the dipstick!! In our dirt track car, we run 7 quarts with the stock 351c oil pan. put in 6 qt and drive the hell out of it.WOW! 10 years to get it on the road, you have a lot more patience than me. Good luck with your hotrod

BeastsNMonsters · Jul 13, 2017

MrSkin said:
Awesome. I kinda' figured that was the problem. The dip stick is correct for a '70 351C and I was kind of sure I received the correct pan.I wanted to keep the engine bay true to what it may have looked like if Ford did this but would you considered a oil filter relocation system and/or a cooler?
Thanks-Denny

I would. Did you check with Tim Meyer of TMeyer, inc regarding his oil pressure mods? The Clev block has a notorious oil flow issue. I would recommend the cooler and relocation kit. You can run the full size filter and it would be easier to get to. The cooler will help for traffic as well as parades/racing applications. Cleveland engines run hot. More cooling is always good.

Real time recon · Jul 13, 2017

Don't know IF your running a 'remote oil filter' Mod. But if so.The (2) oil lines hold 1/2 Qt. of oil.. Draining the oil via the oil pan drain plug, and changing the filter does NOT remove that 1/2 Qt. OLD oil in the lines.

BeastsNMonsters · Jul 13, 2017

Real time recon said:
Don't know IF your running a 'remote oil filter' Mod. But if so.The (2) oil lines hold 1/2 Qt. of oil.. Draining the oil via the oil pan drain plug, and changing the filter does NOT remove that 1/2 Qt. OLD oil in the lines.

Good info. Note to self, blow out oil lines if using remote filter.

horseballz · Jul 22, 2017

I think the worst problem you've got going on is the notoriously crappy FRAM filter! They filter poorly, the check/anti drain back valves leak or stick, etc, etc! At the very least and until you go through with the good idea of a remote filter, you should see if MOTORCRAFT or WIX has a direct size equivalent for the FRAM. FWIW, the Pennzoil and several other brands are simply re-badged FRAM.
Just My $.02 & Likely Worth Even Less!
Gene

imp · Jul 22, 2017

@MrSkin
FWIW, 351W had a deeper sump than 302, but 351C I dunno. Do know my '90 F-150 gobbles a quart more to read full than my 5.0 HOs

Seeing the name Maverick brought memories. Back when Ford was selling 5.0 HOs, '95 Mustang model, they had a huge overstock of inventory, I bought 6 at $2195 each, a steal for brand new, everything there except a starter. Young guy bought one off me, he installed it in his Maverick, 71 or 72, I hooked up the EFI and installed a return fuel line, O2s, he used a C-4, ran pretty nice! imp

Real time recon · Jul 23, 2017

FL-1A is what I use on the 90 302 > https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdk-fl-1a
Cold starts - 85 pounds oil pressure.
Hot Eng.- at red lights, 45-50 pounds
highway speed - 60/65 pounds oil pressure.
About oil leaks - An oil time Ford Eng. mechanic told me that. The only time you have to worry about oil leaks (SMALL ONES) is when it stops leaking.That means its out of oil.

Real time recon · Jul 23, 2017

Also run this for some cheap insurance > https://www.americanmuscle.com/moroso-drain-plug.html

Real time recon · Jul 23, 2017

Third line of defense.... I Swish a magnet around inside of used/spent FL-1A filter.Just for the fun of it

BeastsNMonsters · Jul 25, 2017

imp said:
@MrSkin
FWIW, 351W had a deeper sump than 302, but 351C I dunno. Do know my '90 F-150 gobbles a quart more to read full than my 5.0 HOs

Seeing the name Maverick brought memories. Back when Ford was selling 5.0 HOs, '95 Mustang model, they had a huge overstock of inventory, I bought 6 at $2195 each, a steal for brand new, everything there except a starter. Young guy bought one off me, he installed it in his Maverick, 71 or 72, I hooked up the EFI and installed a return fuel line, O2s, he used a C-4, ran pretty nice! imp

I think the sump is based off of application. They 400 block takes 6-7 quarts. Same with the 351C I used to have. Different applications. Going for an 8 quart though. Need a new pan on the truck.

Rusty67 · Aug 1, 2017

Correct, the oil pan does help determine the total amount of oil in the system. Any additions such as a cooler and/or remote mount filter also increase the oil capacity of the system.

If you are going to run a cooler I would recommend installing a thermostatic control valve so that you aren't cooling cold oil. Oil at the right temp protects against friction better than oil at the wrong temperature. A thermostatic valve will ensure that the oil gets cooled when it needs it and doesn't get cooled when it doesn't need it.

imp · Aug 1, 2017

Rusty67 said:
Correct, the oil pan does help determine the total amount of oil in the system. Any additions such as a cooler and/or remote mount filter also increase the oil capacity of the system.

If you are going to run a cooler I would recommend installing a thermostatic control valve so that you aren't cooling cold oil. Oil at the right temp protects against friction better than oil at the wrong temperature. A thermostatic valve will ensure that the oil gets cooled when it needs it and doesn't get cooled when it doesn't need it.

@Rusty67

As I've always understood it, sludge is formed in oil when moisture from the air gets mixed with the oil. This happens most readily when the oil is cold. As fresh air enters the crankcase from outside, it brings water vapor with it. If all is nice and hot, the water simply stays suspended in the air, and winds up getting burned with the crankcase draft air.

So, yes, cold oil is bad news. imp

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