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New TF heads, the head bolts keep breaking

  • Thread starter Thread starter V8_Kind_Of_Guy
  • Start date Start date Mar 23, 2009

V8_Kind_Of_Guy

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Mar 23, 2009
#1
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #1
Need a little help, my buddy just bought a a trick flow 350 hp top end kit from summit. We have been trying to install the heads but the head bolts keep breaking. We follow the torque sequence and specs that came with the heads. The left side head went on and torqued with no problem, but the right keeps breaking at 90-100 ft-lbs on the 5th bolt, same hole every time. The spec sheet says to go up to 110 ft-lbs on the final torque down. They were brand new ARP bolts. The torque wrench is is a Matco and only 4 months old bought brand new and always taken care of. Any ideas?
 

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet
SN Certified Technician
Sep 5, 2001
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Mar 23, 2009
#2
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #2
Are you using moly-lube or 30wt oil? The TQ specs are different for each. I can tell you now that if you're going with moly, the torque specs you're using are way way way off. Over the phone, they told me that I should be torquing my 1/2" studs to 90 lb-ft. 302Ws use 7/16" bolts, though. So unless you've had everything tapped out to 1/2", I'm guessing you're running 7/16"s.

So, you're going so far passed yield that you should pull all of the bolts back out, including the ones you've already torqued down. Once you pass yield, it actually hurts the clamping load. Also, when the heads go through heat cycles they expand and coupled with cylinders at full pressure, the added forces will stretch the bolts. That's a normal process, and bolts are supposed to return to their original length when you remove them. However, once you've gone passed yield, they will not. So when the bolts will stretch, they will not return to the proper length, and you will be increasingly likely to develop sealing issues at the head-gasket.

I know you didn't ask for that explanation, but I just wanted to dissuade you from any notion of just replacing the bolts on the side you're breaking them. Call ARP directly and ask them what you should be TQing them to. A quick glance at their catalog indicates to me, that the numbers you are using are way off, even with 30wt oil.
 

Mustang5L5

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Feb 18, 2001
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Mar 23, 2009
#3
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #3
I just put some heads on this weekend with ARP bolts and the torque spex was 85 ft-lbs max with 30 wt oil.

Which bolts do you have? p/n
 

strtrcr50

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Mar 23, 2009
#4
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #4
Just out of curiosity, did you chase the holes with a tap?
 

bubba-dough

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Mar 23, 2009
#5
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #5
As already asked, Are you using any lube or the correct lube? Are you sure those are the correct torque numbers? Are you sure that the threads in that one hole are clean and not gaulled up? Bolts shearing are usually caused by improper lube and over-torqueing. I would definately suspect the rest of the head bolts if no/wrong lube was used or if over torqueing happened.
 

jrichker

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#6
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #6
The ARP bolts have a radius under the heads.
The washers that come with the bolts have a chamfer cut in them. The radius under the bolt head mates up with the chamfer
on the washer. Fail to do this and the bolts will never torque down properly. All the bolts get antiseize under the bolt heads,
and everything but the short head bolts get it on the threads. You need Teflon pipe dope or ARP sealant to coat the threads
of the short head bolts. The short bolts go into the water jacket and will seep coolant if you don't use the sealant.
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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#7
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #7
V8_Kind_Of_Guy said:
The spec sheet says to go up to 110 ft-lbs on the final torque down.
Click to expand...

Are you sure it isn't 110Nm? That's equivalent to 81lbft.
The lower bolts should be torqued to 100Nm or 74lbft.
 

5spd GT

"the 5.0 owns all"
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#8
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #8
Along with the other great ideas, how is your calibration?
 

mob

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#9
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #9
Try using a needle torque wrench (not sure if thats the one you have) I bought a brand new torque wrench, on that clicks for x-200ftlbs and it never clicked and broke a bolt in my head from the lower intake. This may not be your problem but you will get an accurate torque and can see where your breaking the bolt at if it breaks again.
 

Cobra912

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#10
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #10
well any luck?? lots of good answers!
 

ShortThrow50

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Oct 22, 2006
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Mar 24, 2009
#11
  • Mar 24, 2009
  • #11
V8_Kind_Of_Guy said:
Need a little help, my buddy just bought a a trick flow 350 hp top end kit from summit. We have been trying to install the heads but the head bolts keep breaking. We follow the torque sequence and specs that came with the heads. The left side head went on and torqued with no problem, but the right keeps breaking at 90-100 ft-lbs on the 5th bolt, same hole every time. The spec sheet says to go up to 110 ft-lbs on the final torque down. They were brand new ARP bolts. The torque wrench is is a Matco and only 4 months old bought brand new and always taken care of. Any ideas?
Click to expand...

i have the same kit dude and your following the wrong torque specs. your using the torque specs listed for a 1/2 bolt. that size bolt is for a big block 460. your supposed to be using the the smaller bolt torque specs. 80pounds on your final torque. good god, of course they keep snapping lol!
 

V8_Kind_Of_Guy

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Mar 31, 2009
#12
  • Mar 31, 2009
  • #12
Sorry it took so long to get back to you guys, my internet cable box went down and just got a new one.

Turns out we did miss read the specs, it did say for 1/2 inch head bolt and 7/16 inch head bolt. We were thinking they ment the head of the bolt and not the thread size of the bolt. So we got some new ARP bolts that we ordered from autozone and replaced the other set. everything went on good and the project is back under way. thanks for the help.
 
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