New to Classic Mustangs

[StangBanger44]

Hi guys, i need a little direction on my newest addition. I recently bought a 66 coupe 289 2V C4 that was about 95% restored. The engine had not been running in aprox 6 years. Well to make a long story short i got the engine running after i replaced the fuel tank, sending unit, cleaned lines, new fuel hoses and filter, new points, condensor and coil. Fires right up and idles but the idle is really rough and just driving the car in my neighbor hood it had no power what so ever. I do plan on replacing the intake and carb over to a 4V sometime in the future but would like to get it running at least decent in the mean time. The engine and tranny was rebuilt just before it sat for 6 years. Any ideas to start troubleshooting this thing?

 

[John Z]

I'm a strong believer in getting what you have working right before "up grading". Things you may have done but I didn't see on your list:
timing
distrubutor cap
spark plugs
spark plug and coil wires
check for vacuum leaks
rebuild carb
compression test
transmission/clutch slippage
With everything working right you should have decent power. Since you said you are considering upgrading to a 4V I assume you have a 2V now. Those engines were rated at 200 gross hp. In about 71-72 the hp rating was changed to net hp, so if everything is factory fresh, you only have ~170 hp in todays terms. Push that through an automatic and your down to ~145 hp at the wheels (with an auto, a little higher with a manual). I saw a mag article where they tested an A code (4V ~220 rated hp) that was in good working order with a manual. They only measured 125 hp at the rear wheels. So if you have been driving anything but an econo box, you generally have a better hp/weight ratio than the Mustang had when it was new! Also most mustangs came with "economy" gears, ~2.79 - 3.0. We tend to forget these facts once bitten by the "classic Mustangs are the best car ever built" bug.

 

[Edbert]

John's list is a good one, but my money is on the carb rebuild being the best thing to try first. I'm suprised it runs with 6 years worth of gum and resin in there. A rebuild kit is cheap, but I would not replace the carb if an upgrade to 4V is in the short-term plans.

 

[StangBanger44]

Thanks

I forgot to mention it revs decent while in park up to 4000 or so but under load it falls on its face badly to a point where it barely made it up my driveway. Im pretty sure i got the timing right but will check again. Also you mentioned the low hp numbers, will i see a noticeable difference with a 4V carb\intake swap and headers.

 

[John Z]

I forgot to mention it revs decent while in park up to 4000 or so but under load it falls on its face badly to a point where it barely made it up my driveway. Im pretty sure i got the timing right but will check again. Also you mentioned the low hp numbers, will i see a noticeable difference with a 4V carb\intake swap and headers.

That sounds like a carb problem, but there could be ignition issues. Could also be vacuum related.

The 4V and headers will make a noticeable improvement, but these will start you down the path to the dark side of "more power". Engines are a case where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. The 4V makes more air available to the engine. Headers improve the escape path. Unfortunately, the hang up with the 289/302 engine is getting the air/fuel through the head. The first step is a hotter cam, but will you valve springs handle it? The next step is a better flowing head, either by port & polish of a stock hear or replacement with a performance head. Next thing you know the rings are not up to stuff, so you rebuild the short block. Since you'll be replacing the pistons, why not bump up the compression? Wow, you've done an excellent job of building a powerful engine, 300 hp is easy, 400+ is possible but radical for a street engine. You put it in the car and go for a test drive. Slap down the accelerator and all of the sudden you have NO traction. Whip out the credit card for some wide tires and wheels. Now you're getting axle hop, Ok there are parts to take care that, all it takes is $$$. Now you have power and traction, great until the rear end and transmission take a dump. Apply some more cash, and you still get beat because someone always has more cash to go fast than you do. You slap yourself in the head and realize how much fun you could have had in the stock mustang. Like I said - it is a dark path.

By the way, IMHO most people start their pursuit of performance at the wrong end of the car. Replacing the stock rear end gears with something on the order of 3.5 (street) or 4.11 will do more to "wake up" a Mustang than minor mods to the engine.

 

[StangBanger44]

Trust me i know, i have had mustangs since i was 17 (28 now) all fox body black 302's. I still have my 93 GT M/T and i will never stop adding stuff to that thing lol. This is my first classic stang and i figured if i can work out the gremlins in my 93 with efi i can get this thing running(66). I will go over timing and check the plugs tonight and see what kind fuel is shooting in to the little 2V. Would a carb problem let it rev ok while in park but not under load? All i really want is close to 300 horse no screamer.

 

[John Z]

Trust me i know, i have had mustangs since i was 17 (28 now) all fox body black 302's. I still have my 93 GT M/T and i will never stop adding stuff to that thing lol. This is my first classic stang and i figured if i can work out the gremlins in my 93 with efi i can get this thing running(66). I will go over timing and check the plugs tonight and see what kind fuel is shooting in to the little 2V. Would a carb problem let it rev ok while in park but not under load? All i really want is close to 300 horse no screamer.

From your first post I didn't get a feel for your experience level. I apologize for any unnecessary schooling.
With EFI the mysteries of performance occur with electrons. With carbs, the mystery occurs between the air filter and intake manifold. Static reving doesn't take the same fuel flow as hauling around the car, so yes you can still have a carb problem. You might try a search of this sight as carb problems have been frequently covered (standard cop out answer).

Here is a link written by a Mustang racer, who also has a lot of street knowledge, on building a 289/302 for 1hp/ci on a "budget". I do not agree on the boring to 0.060 over, I think the boring should be limited to the amount needed to clean up the bores. Many think 0.060" will cause overheating problems.
http://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/BudgetSmallBlock.html

 

[StangBanger44]

Thanks for the feedback and i will start with the carb and go from there, im sure im going to be on here a lot. The only carbs i have any experience with are on my Raptor atv. The car came with the original Ford shop manual and a Chiltons so i can see all of the little parts of the carb if i need to rebuild it. I was also thinking of running some SeaFoam throught it, I have used it on ther cars with success. Once again thanks.

 

[John Z]

Thanks for the feedback and i will start with the carb and go from there, im sure im going to be on here a lot. The only carbs i have any experience with are on my Raptor atv. The car came with the original Ford shop manual and a Chiltons so i can see all of the little parts of the carb if i need to rebuild it. I was also thinking of running some SeaFoam throught it, I have used it on ther cars with success. Once again thanks.

SeaFoam is good stuff. There may be some "varnish" that can be clean out so it's worth a shot. With carbs there are alot of internal things that can cause problems. IIRC the stock 2V carb was the 2150, introduced in 1957 and used forever. I've read there were more than 200 Ford versions of this carb. For some interesting reading check out http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/2150carb/carb01.html
I know it is for a different engine, but all the basics apply.

 

[StangBanger44]

Hey John i saw in your sig you swapped over from a c4 to a T5. I have an extra t5 and was thinking about that swap as well, did you do it your self and where did you get the pedal assembly? How hard is it?

 

[John Z]

Hey John i saw in your sig you swapped over from a c4 to a T5. I have an extra t5 and was thinking about that swap as well, did you do it your self and where did you get the pedal assembly? How hard is it?

The previous owner did the conversion. she had a parts car.

 

[StangBanger44]

In all of my stangs they have had T5's and i wanted a old fastback with a toploader but i could not turn this car down. It really is in nice shape and the price was low so jumped on it. I think i can covert for $ 500 or less being that i already have the T5. But i gotta get the little 289 hoofing first, haha

 

[John Z]

The T5 is great in an old mustang. I have the z-bar set up, but if it didn't come that way I would have strongly considered goint with a cable release. There is a good article on the swap at http://www.mustangsteve.com/msFAQtransmission.html

Hint click on need parts, the guy that runs the sight has a top notch reputation.

 

[98Fauxbra]

Hey Stang Banger,

I had a VERY similar problem with my fiance's 66 coupe. This too is my first old model to work on. I have always been foxes or SN-95's. Her problem turned out to be the carb. It would start in the driveway but run really rough. I took it out to try to "clear it out" and almost got run over! It turned out that the eddy carb that was on it was all gunked up and the choke was not working properly anyway. I replaced it with a 600cfm holley with electric choke and it took care of everything.

 

[StangBanger44]

Thanks man, where are you at in the ATL? Im in Loganville and work in Lawrenceville. Im gonna work on the carb as soon as i have some time.

 

[Edbert]

My best guess is a broken accelerator pump. There's a small plastic/rubber diaphram, I bet it's split, many parts inside a carb don't like being dry for long. That and fuel evaporation is always bad.

 

[StangBanger44]

Things i have checked

Wires are good,and all going to correct plugs, dist cab and rotor and points good and adjusted correctly. Plugs are black and sooty. Also i noticed last night while revving in park it had a noticeble shake-vibration at a certain RPM, not present below or higher. Not sure due to no tach.

 

[John Z]

Wires are good,and all going to correct plugs, dist cab and rotor and points good and adjusted correctly. Plugs are black and sooty. Also i noticed last night while revving in park it had a noticeble shake-vibration at a certain RPM, not present below or higher. Not sure due to no tach.

6 posts have suggested the carb is the problem. The above indicates you have eliminated other problems, and the black and sooty plugs say you're running rich.
Rebuild the carb. Kit ~ $20
How to:
http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/pht/pht20020301cr.html
Just take your time and be careful. It is a diy job for a shade tree mechanic.

HTH

 

[StangBanger44]

I don't disagree that it is a carb problem, i pretty sure that it is. I just wanted to do a thorough process of elimination. I will start on the rebuild tonight and grab some more plugs.

 

[John Z]

grab some more plugs.

Unless the electrode is burned down you could try cleaning and regapping the ones you have. If they are the kind with the crush washer just be careful not to over tighten.