No fire in the whole

ccumbe · Feb 19, 2011

Hi,

I am some what new to this form and most of my experience with fords is in early mustangs. I am building a 66' convertible and have bought a 01' Cobra for a doner car.

I would like to start the Cobra to see how the motor sounds before I pull it out. I have removed all the damage that was in the front of the car so that i can start it. Problem is i seem to have no spark and no fule presser. I do not hear the fule pump coming on before I turn it over. That is an additional problem. I think there is something in the computer not letting it fire.

The dash is blinking Theft, and airbag. Could this be a problem? Also I do not have the cooling system hook up as I am only planning to start it for a few seconds. Could this be a problem.

The motor turns over fine so I shot some starting fluid in the air breather to see if it would fire but no luck. Why would there be no spark?

Any help would be appreciated.

trombonedemon · Feb 19, 2011

Its not the spark, its the fuel. If your pats light blinking continously then the fuel pump is not working, you stated that its not priming. There is a way to completely bypass the P.A.T.S. system. Burns has a lot info here about that, use the search function.

wmburns · Feb 20, 2011

PATS disables fuel and spark. So it would be expected if the theft light is blinking there would be no injector pulse or spark.

Since this car has also been involved in an accident, did you reset the IFS in the trunk? Note, the IFS is not the sole problem because if so, it would start/hit with starting fluid.

Did you check all of the fuses? Consider for example, a blown PCM fuse would also present with the same symptom. Or a busted CCRM.

ccumbe · Feb 20, 2011

wmburns,

Thanks for the info. I am not familiar with the acronym PATS. or the IFS where will I find that? I will search your threads to try to get up to speed on this.

If the theft light is blinking and that would cause no spark or fule then the starting fluid would not have worked right?

Thanks

wmburns · Feb 20, 2011

PATS is the anti-theft system.

IFS is the fuel shutoff in the trunk. It's purpose is to disable the fuel pump in the event of an accident. A tripped IFS would only disable the fuel pump. If a tripped IFS were your ONLY problem, then the car WOULD start on starting fluid.

If PATS were tripped, THEN the expected result would be NO spark and NO fuel injector pulse. Therefore, it would NOT start using starting fluid.

However, as stated above, there are other causes for your symptom.

Turn the key on, but do NOT crank. Does the theft light go out after a 3 second prove out? If not, STOP and find out why.

Next turn the key on/pause/off (do not crank). Listen for the fuel pump to run each time. If you do NOT hear the fuel pump run, STOP and find out why.

Next turn the key on and crank the motor. Does the theft light come on during cranking? If so, STOP and find out why.

Perform the above tests in order. This will keep you from wasting time looking at an unlikely possible cause.

Note, be alert to the possibility there are multiple reasons why this car won't start. Especially electrical from the battery junction box.

ccumbe · Feb 20, 2011

Great info, I will try these this afternoon. Working through each problem may be time consuming.

My first question will be how to reset the PATS? The theft light continues to blink does not stop. Checking all the fuses will also be the first thing I will check.

One more question. I do not understand what the term "prove out" means? Is that just a term to confirm that the light goes out?

wmburns · Feb 20, 2011

Not really possible to "reset PATS". Other than turning on/off the ignition switch. The PATS key code is read each time. It either suceeds or it doesn't. So, if the theft light is STILL blinking, then the problem is ongoing.

What happens to the dash lights in every car if you turn the key on but do not start/crank? Hint, the cluster performs a lamp test as well as a basic test of the sub-system (prove out).

ccumbe · Feb 20, 2011

I understand the "prove out". I am going out to perform some test on it and see about reseting the IFS. Then run through these procedurs as you have described. Thanks for your patience.

twogts4us · Feb 20, 2011

Passive Anti Theft System - I believe that is the acronym for PATS (or, reverse that, PATS is the acronym for Passive Anti Theft System)

ccumbe · Feb 20, 2011

Well the IFS was already pushed back in. I bought this Cobra threw a salvage auction so many people may have messed with it before I received it. So reading some of the articles that were in this form when I searched PATS it seems that I may have a bad chip in the key or a bogess key. PATS will not let the fule, spark, or starter turn over when it engaged. So because I am not trying to fix this car and do not want to waste anymore time or money on it I am going to go ahead and remove the motor so that I can fit it in to my 66'. My TCI suppension should be here this week so I will start the installation of that.

I looks like the best way to remove the motor is from the bottom. I have the car on a lift now so I will disconnect every thing lower it on to a stand that I will fab and then rais the car back up. Does this sound correct to you guys?
Again I have not worked on a late model car to this extent before.

Thanks again for your help trying to diagnose this problem.

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