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  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-

Obd 2 302/351 How To

  • Thread starter Thread starter enyawix
  • Start date Start date Mar 9, 2014
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enyawix

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Mar 19, 2014
#41
  • Mar 19, 2014
  • #41
Noobz347 said:
This is really the thing right here. I've had to pass emissions testing in a LOT of different places. Some are better/easier than others.

I can say this about the places that I've been that actually look for error codes:

If you have say, a 1989 Mustang that came OEM with an A9L and they are required to check for codes, it will fail emissions based solely on the fact that you do not have the test port that came equipped on your car. In many cases, one would not even pass the visual inspection. End of story.

If the OP thinks that the emissions control people are going to sit back with a cigarette and chatter about the marvelous job that was done to put an OBD2 computer into and OBD1 car, then he is sadly mistaken. Most of these clowns are not even car people. They look at a screen or a book. Their procedure tells them to take emissions accessory 21b and insert into slot 16f. If 21b doesn't fit 16f or if 16f is relocated or doesn't exist... FAIL. They don't take the time to discover the why or how... It's not their problem. What is supposed to be on the car is NOT and that's enough for them to fail you and move on to the next one before the lunch break begins.

If you have the same car in a state/county that DOESN'T check for error codes but has a dyno, idle, or high idle sniffer test then the only thing that matters is what is coming out of the tail pipe. OBD2 vs. OBD1 makes ZERO difference in this case. The same adjustments to emissions control methods can be made with EITHER of these setups using the same methods but different equipment. EITHER of these ECUs can be tuned so it makes no sense to me why anyone would retro fit.

If things like what the OP is talking about in this thread were true, then we'd all be ditching the factory catalytic converters and smog pumps in favor of 3-way catalytic converters. They're more efficient and reduce emissions more than the factory pieces. Why don't we? Because that's not how they operate. They want the factory equipment or the car fails, REGARDLESS of the fact that the OEM converters are inferior.


The best way to pass emissions is and always has been, to have on the car what CAME on the car and to ensure that it is all in good working order.
Click to expand...


I hope I get a tester who is not a car person that will plug into the diagnostic port see no codes and send me on my way. Only going Odb2 because the car year is 1998.
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,252
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Massachusetts
Mar 20, 2014
#42
  • Mar 20, 2014
  • #42
What state is this going to apply to?

Does the state follow CARB laws as many are starting to?

I only ask that because...

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm

Electronic Ignitions
The manufacturer of replacement electronic ignitions determines which of their models are considered replacements for original equipment. These replacement electronic ignitions are then listed by vehicle year, make, model and engine size in the manufacturer's catalogue. Electronic ignitions or electronic point replacement units for vehicles not originally equipped with these items require an Executive Order to be legal for street use. Swapping electronic ignitions from different years, engines, or makes is illegal.



Also regarding engine changes..

Engine Changes
Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:
  • The engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle.
  • The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.
  • If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.
  • All emissions control equipment must remain on the installed engine.
  • Vehicles converted to 100% electric drive, with all power supplied by on-board batteries are considered in compliance with the engine change requirements. All fuel system components must be removed prior to inspection. For additional information contact the ARB helpline at (800) 242-4450

It's a lot to go out on a limb and hope the tester is pretty much oblivious and just plugs into the OBD2 and not look under the hood at all. Now I understand your purpose of pretty much disquising a 351 engine with a OBD2 setup and hoping nobody actually looks and simply plugs in, sees everything register as OK, and slap a sticker on.

I like it!
 
Reactions: enyawix

enyawix

Member
Dec 18, 2005
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Mar 20, 2014
#43
  • Mar 20, 2014
  • #43
Mustang5L5 said:
What state is this going to apply to?

Does the state follow CARB laws as many are starting to?

I only ask that because...

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm

Electronic Ignitions
The manufacturer of replacement electronic ignitions determines which of their models are considered replacements for original equipment. These replacement electronic ignitions are then listed by vehicle year, make, model and engine size in the manufacturer's catalogue. Electronic ignitions or electronic point replacement units for vehicles not originally equipped with these items require an Executive Order to be legal for street use. Swapping electronic ignitions from different years, engines, or makes is illegal.



Also regarding engine changes..

Engine Changes
Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:
  • The engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle.
  • The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.
  • If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.
  • All emissions control equipment must remain on the installed engine.
  • Vehicles converted to 100% electric drive, with all power supplied by on-board batteries are considered in compliance with the engine change requirements. All fuel system components must be removed prior to inspection. For additional information contact the ARB helpline at (800) 242-4450

It's a lot to go out on a limb and hope the tester is pretty much oblivious and just plugs into the OBD2 and not look under the hood at all. Now I understand your purpose of pretty much disquising a 351 engine with a OBD2 setup and hoping nobody actually looks and simply plugs in, sees everything register as OK, and slap a sticker on.

I like it!
Click to expand...

Good chance I will be living in Tennessee. Only some parts of Tennessee do testing, but that could change.
 

enyawix

Member
Dec 18, 2005
507
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Mar 30, 2014
#44
  • Mar 30, 2014
  • #44
I did not abandon this project. Simply having to figure things out the hard way as I go. Will be creating a website to catalog this project and mistakes I have made along the way.
 

Decipha

Active Member
Aug 22, 2007
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New Orleans, LA
Apr 29, 2014
#45
  • Apr 29, 2014
  • #45
pretty simple what your trying to do

Best bet, get a 99-04 mustang v8 ecu instead of the explorer, that way you can do coil on plug and internal edis, you can also use fuel pressure compensation

it doesnt matter if its an auto or manual ecu

most all eec-4 sensors will work with an eec-5 not much changed, o2s are the same
 

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man
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Apr 30, 2014
#46
  • Apr 30, 2014
  • #46
enyawix said:
Emissions testing.
Click to expand...
What year is your car? In TX once the car is 25 it's considered classic and is emissions exempt. Are you in California where they would put the sniffer on a model t?
 

vristang

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2005
4,933
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Seattle
May 1, 2014
#47
  • May 1, 2014
  • #47
Not sure where you on this, but I managed to run my 2.3 4-cyl with EDIS, using a CZAJL ecu.
The CBAZA (94-95 Mustang) ecu's don't actually support EDIS, but GUFB (fox bodies) do.

I know you wanna run CoP, but this thread should help you understand some of what you need to do....
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20364
 

HANO Motorsports

Active Member
Aug 6, 2006
29
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Prairieville, Louisiana
Oct 6, 2014
#48
  • Oct 6, 2014
  • #48
Revive.. Did you finally give up on this?
 

Micheal Nadeau

Active Member
Dec 30, 2013
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Savannah, GA
Oct 6, 2014
#49
  • Oct 6, 2014
  • #49
I hope it was abandoned completely. The reasoning behind it wasn't logical at all. There was quite a bit of misinformation in here. I was a certified state inspector for North Carolina. When you bring your car in for an inspection, the inspector verifies the year make and model. Depending on location, you may be required to conduct a sniffer test and safety check, or just a safety check for vehicles older than 1996. 1996 and newer vehicles have to pass three parameters. Safety (no steering, suspension or brake issues), emission and OBD2 readiness. So if you go and clear your codes and show up for inspection, and your EVAP monitor has completed its drive cycle readiness, your 02's haven't completed readiness and misfire monitors haven't completed readiness, you will get a not ready rejection. What engine and transmission that is in a car will not disqualify it from an inspection. If that were the case, every car would be required to have engine serial number verification. If California's Air Resource Board was for real, part stores couldn't sell spark plugs, sparks wires, coils, distributors, tfi modules, or anything of the sort as they cover several model years/makes and would violate their "swapping ignitions from different engines, years and makes illegal"

The only benefit to OBD2 is the ability to see live data and have bidirectional control of onboard systems. Just having OBD2 doesn't mean you have better emissions.

The flat out easiest way to run an OBD2 system in our cars would be like what was already mentioned, find a 96 F-150 5.0 manual and pull the PCM and wiring harness. You would ultimately have to extend, shorten or reroute connectors, but it would almost be plug and play. Again, no real benefit to making this swap.
 

2000xp8

SN Certified Technician
Aug 8, 2003
8,026
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Oct 6, 2014
#50
  • Oct 6, 2014
  • #50
For the record, saleen did it with 96-99 s351's.
With that said, after reading through this post, i'm with nadeau, not sure i really see the point.
 

enyawix

Member
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Nov 4, 2014
#51
  • Nov 4, 2014
  • #51
oldawgnewtrikz said:
Revive.. Did you finally give up on this?
Click to expand...

Did not give up. The project is just going slow. Issues with my 3.8 could revive the project.
 

Madd_Hatter_1979

New Member
Jan 13, 2015
19
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Feb 6, 2015
#52
  • Feb 6, 2015
  • #52
Where abouts in TN do you live? At current the only counties I know of that do emissions are Davidson(Nashville) and Shelby(Memphis)...
 
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