Official Tremec 3650 Issues Thread

mussang said:

WOODY COULDY,
You have made a basic error in your logic. Most folks are installing an after market T56 . This box has a different ratio set than the 03Cobra T56. 2.97 / 2.07/1.43/1.00/.80/.62. The low end multiplication is still a hit , but not what you have assumed.

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I talk about those exact ratios (2.97, 2.07, etc.) in my post, and say pretty much the same thing you do. Except that I don't know what T56 most people are actually using. The only production car I know of that has those ratios is the '00 Cobra R. The Viper, Camaro, Corvette, Firebird, '03 Cobra all use the steeper ratios, so I can only assume those ratios were more common. If Tremec is selling the T56 with the shorter gearing to individuals, that's great, but I still don't think swapping one in is going to make a GT faster (see my post).

I've got an '03 GT with a build date of 11/26/2002. I hadn't thought it was an issue at first with the clunking since this is the first "new" manual tranny-d vehicle I've driven (only other manual was a 90 Mazda 626) and I just thought it was the "crispness" of the new ride, but now I see all this and realize it could indeed be a real problem. And for those that think it doesn't happen in the southwest, I'm in Albuquerque NM and it does it ALL the time, and the 2-3 shift is a pain in the rear. (ie at the strip it REFUSES to go into 3rd when I'm shifting JUST right).

Yasu Tamashima 01 GT 28059miles
bit natchy 1st~2nd. Grind badly to shift in to reverse

I just took my car to ford, yesterday, they are really busy so wont be able to look at my car till monday, i also emailed ford customer service, which called me today, and i told them the problems, and the dealer who i went to who were *******s, even when i was in the car with them, ya im 18 and i may be a kid, but i payed for my gt and i think i deserve a little more respect then i got, but anways they faxed the ford dealship that i took my car to all my information and what i explain to the gentalmen on the phone, so we will see where it goes from there, if nothing happens, ill change my fluid... I want to drop my car and put on my body kit, but i know if i do that, they will blame it on the springs, or somthing dumb....

I know there are differant problems with this trans. Most common seem to be 1-2 shift clunk. The other is grinding into gear.

Well here is my fix for a 1-2 clunk. When my Mach 1 was cold this was VERY noticible. Had to shift very slowly and ease it in gear. Would take 10-15 minutes of driving before it started to go away, even then I would hear it every once in a while.

Called Tremec. They told me two things:

- Dumpt the factory fill (was told by Tremec Mobil 1 syn). Replace it with Texaco (Havoline) Dexron III.
- Drop the fill amount from Ford's recommendation of 3.8 to 3.2 quarts.

They said this would fix the problem. I wasn't as sure as they were. What do you know, it worked. No clunk, even when I try to get it (pop the clutch a little too early). Dont' even get it on a fast downshift like a Iused to. Feels great. If anyone has a shifting clunk I would highly recommend the change.

Shouldn't take you more that 20 minutes to do:

- Warm up the and get it up on ramps or jacks. The higher the better as the fill hole is a little tough to reach.

- Use 3/8 inch ratchet to remove drain plug (bottom rear of trans).
- Clean / replace plug and remove the fill plug. Same type plug, higher up on passenger side of trans rear.
- Don't use a 2 hose hand siphon pump. They are garbage for this job, trust me. Go to Meijer and buy a pump that screws directly to the top of the trans bottle. Make sure the "fluid out" least 1 foot long to reach the fill plug. The "fliud in" line to the pump drops right down in the bottle. Makes it easy to pump out 99% from the bottle.
- fill with 3.2 quarts (3027 ML to be exact). Bottles are marked in ML's.
- Replace fill plug and your done.

I am extremely happy with how the Tremec is shifting now. I ran it through is paces hard, even cold and it is great. If anyone is going to try it and has a question, PM or e-mail me.

GiddyUp!

mity2 said:

Yasu Tamashima 01 GT 28059miles
bit natchy 1st~2nd. Grind badly to shift in to reverse

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Are you coming to a complete stop before you go into reverse? According to the owner's manual, you are supposed to.

I don't know about the T3650, but one time I tried shifting a T5 into reverse while rolling slightly, and it made a noise like the world was coming to an end.

Now looking back at this thread, I see a lot of people complain that the transmission grinds going into reverse. I don't really see how that could happen at a dead stop, and this makes me wonder how many of the problems with the 3650 are due to people shifting into reverse on a roll.

Some of you guys can solve the 1-2 shift grind/clunk by reading Golion's thread on "Tremec 3650 1-2 clunk fix". I've been living with this annoyance since day one with my '02 GT until this morning. Did as he recommended and my 1-2 shift is as smooth as a babies rear! DO IT!! It worked for him and it worked for me!

Fix...

Da Thread!

Here's the link I found to the fix he's referring to. It's worth a shot man, I'll give it a try. I grinded really bad last night coming back from Wendy's. I was blasting my sound system so I wasn't really paying attention and really grinded her. I apoligized, but I think she was pissed.

Silver02GT said:

Some of you guys can solve the 1-2 shift grind/clunk by reading Golion's thread on "Tremec 3650 1-2 clunk fix". I've been living with this annoyance since day one with my '02 GT until this morning. Did as he recommended and my 1-2 shift is as smooth as a babies rear! DO IT!! It worked for him and it worked for me!

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GiddyUp!

Hopefully all those interested in the law suit will try it before jumping on board. For the $ and time it worth a shot. (Where is the lawsuit sticky thread, Dewayne?)

For those who did and it didn't help, that stinks. I guess it is back to the dealer.

GiddyUp!

Do any of these "fixes" help with the problem of the tranny refusing to shift into 3rd at high RPM's? As of tonight, you can sign me up for that one.

I can't believe I got another Mustang after that last POS I had. I recently got rid of my '00 GT and stepped into a new '03. I thought this one would be different, I thought I just got a dud last time. Guess not, since this one has 1600 miles on it and already I can't shift to 3rd beyond 3000 RPM (unless I shift like a retarded granny). Never been to the track, baby the car. Ford ****ing sucks.

Twisted said:

I don't want any money from Ford. I just want my transmission fixed. The dealer has had it twice with no luck fixing it, I have also tried Tremecs advise. What am I and all the other stangers supposed to do when the dealer says "it's normal"?????

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I totally agree with you. I have an 11 month old car now with slightly over 6000 highway miles-never raced, never power shifted, never missed a gear-and the thing has grinded on the 1-2 and 2-3 since day 1. I have had passengers comment on how loud the grind is. But it's normal, eh and I’m tired of going to the dealer with problems on my car. I don’t want money either, just a properly functioning car. I am hesitant to try the Stangnet user recommended fluid change because if there is a problem with the type/amount of fluid in my tranny, Ford-not I-should be fixing it. If something happens to my trans and it is found to have below the manufacturers recommended fill level and I am denied warranty service what am I to do? And just a bit of information for those of you saying we shouldn’t be so quick to pursue legal action-the government is starting another investigation into the Crown Vic and similar Ford vehicles because of a brake problem-the car may take longer distances to come to a stop. The investigation is looking at over 700,000 cars built between 1995 and 1997. There have been over 700 complaints regarding this issue. That's only 0.1% of cars made. Ford has been putting 3650’s in Mustangs since late in the ’01 model year and since that time has sold roughly 140,000 Mustangs/year. About 35% percent of Mustangs are GT’s and assuming 40% are manuals that yields approx. 59000 vehicles. Last time we heard from Dewayne he had 250 names just from Stangnet-0.4% of cars sold with 3650’s. That sounds like enough people with a noticeable driveline problem to warrant further inquiry based on the Crown Vic numbers. For those of us that have a problem, contact NHTSA.

Silver_'02_4.6 said:

I totally agree with you. I have an 11 month old car now with slightly over 6000 highway miles-never raced, never power shifted, never missed a gear-and the thing has grinded on the 1-2 and 2-3 since day 1. I have had passengers comment on how loud the grind is. But it's normal, eh and I’m tired of going to the dealer with problems on my car. I don’t want money either, just a properly functioning car. I am hesitant to try the Stangnet user recommended fluid change because if there is a problem with the type/amount of fluid in my tranny, Ford-not I-should be fixing it. If something happens to my trans and it is found to have below the manufacturers recommended fill level and I am denied warranty service what am I to do? And just a bit of information for those of you saying we shouldn’t be so quick to pursue legal action-the government is starting another investigation into the Crown Vic and similar Ford vehicles because of a brake problem-the car may take longer distances to come to a stop. The investigation is looking at over 700,000 cars built between 1995 and 1997. There have been over 700 complaints regarding this issue. That's only 0.1% of cars made. Ford has been putting 3650’s in Mustangs since late in the ’01 model year and since that time has sold roughly 140,000 Mustangs/year. About 35% percent of Mustangs are GT’s and assuming 40% are manuals that yields approx. 59000 vehicles. Last time we heard from Dewayne he had 250 names just from Stangnet-0.4% of cars sold with 3650’s. That sounds like enough people with a noticeable driveline problem to warrant further inquiry based on the Crown Vic numbers. For those of us that have a problem, contact NHTSA.

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The difference is that you can't destroy your brakes by operating them improperly. I would be willing to bet that at least 0.4% of people with any given manual transmission will break it somehow.

Of course, there are people with the problem who aren't posting. So 0.4% is an underestimate. It's too bad the complainers on this thread have stifled any positive or neutral commentary, because this eliminates any possibility of coming up with a valid percentage, except to say that at least 0.4% of people probably have the problem.

My attitude toward this thread (and the other, similar threar) will be one of extreme skepticism until the people with the problem check for, and rule out, two potential causes I have suggested:

1) Drivetrain mis-alignment, due to soft motor/transmission mounts
2) Shifting into reverse while moving

I also have a real problem with the reaction to Ford's TSB about aftermarket shifters and shift stops.

CuddaWuddaShuda said:

The difference is that you can't destroy your brakes by operating them improperly. I would be willing to bet that at least 0.4% of people with any given manual transmission will break it somehow.

Of course, there are people with the problem who aren't posting. So 0.4% is an underestimate. It's too bad the complainers on this thread have stifled any positive or neutral commentary, because this eliminates any possibility of coming up with a valid percentage, except to say that at least 0.4% of people probably have the problem.

My attitude toward this thread (and the other, similar threar) will be one of extreme skepticism until the people with the problem check for, and rule out, two potential causes I have suggested:

1) Drivetrain mis-alignment, due to soft motor/transmission mounts
2) Shifting into reverse while moving

I also have a real problem with the reaction to Ford's TSB about aftermarket shifters and shift stops.

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Oh really, so riding one's brakes won't wear them out prematurely or you can’t burn them up? Also I never said the brakes were being destroyed, just the cars were taking longer distances to stop. Just like my car takes longer to shift because I try to keep it from grinding. And why do you assume improper transmission operation? I shift easy and I have never shifted into reverse while moving, just like I doubt many people here have. And in case you missed it, the title of this thread is Official Tremec 3650 Issues Thread, thus it was started by and intended for us complainers with a transmission issue. You apparently don’t have a transmission issue so what’s your motivation for posting here?

Your analysis of my percentages doesn’t make sense. What type of valid figures are you looking for? Positive or neutral experiences with the trans. are irrelevant in this matter. No matter how you figure it, based on 250 reports of this tranny issue, that is 0.4% of all Mustangs sold with the 3650 and that 0.4% have a common complaint regarding the trans. That means my calculations shows a maximum 99.6% of 3650 positive or neutral owners have no complaint to report, but that’s the unreliable figure. Do you really think Ford would run the risk of using substandard mounts causing the transmission to operate improperly? And maybe your right, what if there are inferior mounts in the Mustang from the factory, which lead to driveline misalignment. But, that would be Ford’s problem to fix, not mine. Why would I ever want to buy aftermarket mounts because Ford is suppose to know more parts of the car than anyone in the aftermarket? That TSB says that faulty tranny operation can result from aftermarket shifters, but I still have a factory shifter, and my transmission grinds-that doesn’t jive. Since none of us with the problem are getting anywhere with Ford, we would like some answers-even if it means pursuing legal measures.

Silver_'02_4.6 said:

Oh really, so riding one's brakes won't wear them out prematurely or you can’t burn them up?

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Sure, you can wear out the pads that way, but they are a routine maintenance item. Your transmission is not a maintenance item.

Silver_'02_4.6 said:

And why do you assume improper transmission operation? I shift easy and I have never shifted into reverse while moving, just like I doubt many people here have

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Many people here have complained about grinding going into reverse. I doubt that would happen at a standstill. At a complete stop, I can see where a defective transmission would fail to engage reverse, but it shouldn't grind. Think about it: if you are able to sit at a complete stop, with the clutch depressed, and make the transmission grind, where is the energy coming from that causes the grinding noise?

Silver_'02_4.6 said:

Your analysis of my percentages doesn’t make sense. What type of valid figures are you looking for? Positive or neutral experiences with the trans. are irrelevant in this matter. No matter how you figure it, based on 250 reports of this tranny issue, that is 0.4% of all Mustangs sold with the 3650 and that 0.4% have a common complaint regarding the trans. That means my calculations shows a maximum 99.6% of 3650 positive or neutral owners have no complaint to report, but that’s the unreliable figure.

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As you say, 0.4% is the reliable figure. The problem is that, reliable or not, it's way too low to ever justify any action by Ford. Saying that 0.4% of people have a problem with a particular 5-speed is meaningless. Of course they do... in fact, I bet for any automatic transmission you pick 0.4% of people have some kind of warranty issue. That's just not a very big number for a device as complicated as a transmission, especially a manual.

Now, if positive / neutral comments weren't excluded, we could use StangNet as a sample group and get a real idea of what percentage of people have the problem. Too bad nobody understands that... or are you all afraid to see the real percentage?

Also, if the people on the thread were looking for a valid fix, I could understand that positive / neutral commentary wouldn't help. But I know people here aren't looking for a fix because I have posted the number one suggested fix for grinding gears from a very good service manual, and it has been ignored.

Silver_'02_4.6 said:

Do you really think Ford would run the risk of using substandard mounts causing the transmission to operate improperly? And maybe your right, what if there are inferior mounts in the Mustang from the factory, which lead to driveline misalignment. But, that would be Ford’s problem to fix, not mine. Why would I ever want to buy aftermarket mounts because Ford is suppose to know more parts of the car than anyone in the aftermarket? That TSB says that faulty tranny operation can result from aftermarket shifters, but I still have a factory shifter, and my transmission grinds-that doesn’t jive. Since none of us with the problem are getting anywhere with Ford, we would like some answers-even if it means pursuing legal measures.

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Ford probably doesn't even make the mounts. There is probably a lot of variation in the manufacturing of the rubber-like material from one batch to another. Besides, anyone will tell you Mustangs - even ones that shift well - have some very soft mounts. And motor mounts wear over time. There is just a lot of drivetrain slop on these cars. You can get your mounts replaced for less than $200... that won't get you an hour with a good civil attorney.

I think the real problems here are:

1) A bunch of people are holding out hope that Ford will put free T56s in their car

AND

2) People aren't "being one" with their cars. Shifting a manual is sometimes more art than science. I am basing this statement on my own experience, on the track and on the street. Lately I have been observing how I shift my T3650, and there's no doubt that I am sensing and responding to feedback from it. The feedback takes the form of vibration, noise, and so on. So I am making a semi-conscious effort to prevent it from grinding... I just don't think this is a problem. It's just logical that I would have to do this. Could Ford put in a transmission that would never, ever grind no matter what kind of stupid $h1t people did with it? I guess, but I don't want to pay the penalty for that, in cost, weight, and parasitic loss.

Cudda-Transmission not a maintenance item, so I should never have to change fluid then right? As for shifting into reverse, well it is quite obvious that a still car should not grind when shifting to reverse properly and I have not defended those that shift into reverse while moving. Refering to my posts, my car grinds on the 1-2, 2-3 that is my problem with the trans and many share my complaint. Just look at the first post in this thread, it only refers to the 1-2 grind with no mention of reverse. 0.4% too low eh? How quickly you forget the government is investigating the brakes on Crown Vics and other similar Ford vehicles when 0.1% of owners have experienced and reported a complaint. Those investigations sometimes lead to action even with low percentages of users reporting problems. And it's not that the people are having problems with their trans, they are reporting a similar problem with their trans. You still apparently don't understand percentages and my calculations. 250 people reported problems to Dewayne, that is 0.4% of all owners-meaning 99.6% owners don't have a problem to report. This means that 99.6% or roughly 59,000 manual GT owners could have posted positive and neutral experiences here and we would still have just 0.4% of owners reporting the same transmission problem. 0.4% is based upon the 250 reports to Dewayne of a grinding trans, which is the real minimum percentage of GT owners reporting a similar tranny problem here. I believe most of us are looking for a valid fix, it's just that Ford should be doing it. You’re the one that wants a check-but you claim not to have a problem. Why do you think your fix is number one? According to Ford, my car is normal, so they don’t believe there is any validity to your hype fix. Is your service manual a Ford manual? If it isn’t, it would then be aftermarket, and Ford should know more about their car than an aftermarket service manual shouldn’t they.

I imagine a supplier provides Ford's mounts, but the parts should be validated and fully understood before they are placed on a motor vehicle. Proper control processes in the manufacturing stream should reduce material variation. Yeah motor mounts wear out over time, but in less than a year and 6000 miles? I guess mine were toasted as I drove home from the dealership.

Everyone here should know that Ford isn't going to put a T56 in for a 3650. Heck if they were going to do that, why not replace every defective SOHC with a DOHC? I don't recall seeing anyone here asking for a T56 replacement but perhaps they would like to upgrade eventually. One doesn’t have to spend a lot for a nice shifting trans. I own a manual Focus too and I expect much less out of it than my Mustang (4 Focus recalls and 3 warranty repairs not withstanding), but the odd thing is I have never heard so much as a peep out of the cheaper Focus’ transmission and the car is lightweight and I still have about an average 13% driveline loss. Point being, yes the Focus has much less power but an equally smooth transmission without penalties is definitely feasible for a more powerful car.

While you develop an answer for everything, your arguments are filled with a lot of bets and assumptions. You have not attempted to support your claims, er I mean bets, of breakages, complaints or driveline slop with hard numbers and you seem to think you know about the driving habits of people you have never met and no one should have to explain their situation to you, especially since your are only armed with your feelings towards this issue. Jeez, in just two posts your root cause has gone from rolling reverse shifting and driveline misalignment to people just want T56’s and aren’t one with their cars-shaky ground here. Perhaps in the future you will be a bit more open minded and less accusing before attempting to crash a thread that many consider to have merit.

Your warranty will be long gone before Ford fixes everyones 1-2 grind.

Even if they go through the with the class action suit you might only end up with something like a coupon for $200.00 on your next new Ford car purchase.

I can't understand it with these crapy 3650's. I know people who have had them replaced with a brand new factory fresh trany, and they still have the same identical problem. What the F is going on?