Please Help... 2.3 N/a Won't Run

Kent Snyder · May 19, 2013

I have a 1989 Ford Mustang LX 2.3. It starts and runs for about 1 second, then dies. If I pump the accelerator as fast as possible while cranking, and release the key while still pumping the accelerator, it runs for about 2 seconds at a VERY rough and low idle, then dies. I have replaced plugs, wires, injectors, cap and rotor, tfi module, starter solenoid, fuel pressure regulator, fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel filter and the IAC. I have tested to see if I have spark, and I have a very strong blue ark, I have tested fuel, and have fuel pressure, and I have also tested oxygen, which I do have with no vacuum leaks. Please help, I'm pulling my hair out on this one. I have work in the morning, but when I get home, I'll post a video of it all in hopes that it will help solve this. Thanks guys for all the help!

91TwighlightGT · May 20, 2013

First things first - are there any codes in the computer, this is extremely important and will help us point to a problem. Has the check engine light been on prior to this no start? Check the simple stuff first, too. Make sure it has enough fuel in it, make sure nothing is unplugged and the grounds are all clean and tight.

You need fuel, spark, and compression. Do a compression test and report back.

Could be a plugged catalytic converter, too. Pull the front 02 sensor and see what happens if the compression test is good.

Kent Snyder · May 20, 2013

91TwighlightGT said:
First things first - are there any codes in the computer, this is extremely important and will help us point to a problem. Has the check engine light been on prior to this no start? Check the simple stuff first, too. Make sure it has enough fuel in it, make sure nothing is unplugged and the grounds are all clean and tight.

You need fuel, spark, and compression. Do a compression test and report back.

Could be a plugged catalytic converter, too. Pull the front 02 sensor and see what happens if the compression test is good.

Okay, so when I got home I searched for my volt meter again (I did yesterday as well) and still didn't find it. I can go buy one and pull codes, that won't be a problem. At this point I have yet to pull any codes. First let me start off by saying that I've done a compression test, and when I plug my finger into the Head where the plugs go, it blows my finger out almost on the compression stroke. So I have to assume that I am making compression. When I first got the car, it only ran when I made a vacuum leak, and it idled REALLY high. I could drive it etc etc... as time went on, I replaced things here and there, and it got to the point where it wouldn't even do that. It started to crank and start, then idle down, then idle down some more, and finally when it tried to go into a regular idle it would just die. Now that I've replace all this stuff, it does what I explained above. So I would have to then assume that my catalytic converter is fine, since it DID run. I've made sure my cam timing is correct, I've adjusted my Idle Screw, I've done it all except replace the PCM. So do you think it could be a PCM issue? If not, please continue to help, I have no idea at this point and am dumbfounded. I'm definitely going to pull some codes.

91TwighlightGT · May 21, 2013

Kent, I like ya, but you are making too many assumptions. The absolute first thing we need is to pull codes, because if they are there we need to address them. It may tell us that your mass air meter is shot - which will make the car run horrible or not at all. You could also have an EGR issue, where the EGR valve is stuck open and causing a huge vacuum leak. So, run those codes ASAP.

Do a proper compression test and determine that you have good, equal compression on all cylinders. If we have low compression there is no point going forward - you need a head gasket at least in that case.

Secondly, the catalytic converter could be plugged, and it is simple enough to test - remove the 02 sensor and see if it runs. If it runs, then you have a clogged converter. It is not unheard of.

Third, the PCM could be bad, but you really have to eliminate every other possibility before you jump to PCM, because they don't go bad that often.

My personal opinion (guess!) is that you have something like a bad MAF, or some sort of major vacuum leak, like the EGR or intake manifold gasket. Or, worst case scenario, a blown head gasket, but since you never had any overheating this is probably not the case.

Kent Snyder · May 21, 2013

91TwighlightGT said:
Kent, I like ya, but you are making too many assumptions. The absolute first thing we need is to pull codes, because if they are there we need to address them. It may tell us that your mass air meter is shot - which will make the car run horrible or not at all. You could also have an EGR issue, where the EGR valve is stuck open and causing a huge vacuum leak. So, run those codes ASAP.

Do a proper compression test and determine that you have good, equal compression on all cylinders. If we have low compression there is no point going forward - you need a head gasket at least in that case.

Secondly, the catalytic converter could be plugged, and it is simple enough to test - remove the 02 sensor and see if it runs. If it runs, then you have a clogged converter. It is not unheard of.

Third, the PCM could be bad, but you really have to eliminate every other possibility before you jump to PCM, because they don't go bad that often.

My personal opinion (guess!) is that you have something like a bad MAF, or some sort of major vacuum leak, like the EGR or intake manifold gasket. Or, worst case scenario, a blown head gasket, but since you never had any overheating this is probably not the case.

Okay, first of all, thanks for all the input man. I really need help and some other brain power to mull this whole thing over, so you're awesome for helpin' me out. And it's not like I'm new to mechanics and fixing cars... I've had my fair share of pulling my hair out over stupid problems lol. But sometimes, ya know... you just need some help and an outside source of advice.

So, I don't have a mass air, because mine is speed density. In 1989, the Mustang's speed density computer system was replaced with a mass air system. For some reason though... my 2.3 is Speed Density. I don't think they changed the 2.3's until 1990. Anyway, I digress. So tomorrow I get off early, which will leave me daylight so that I can run up to autozone, pull codes, and make a video of what it does (The Volt Meter, and how the car runs).

Can you please tell me what a "proper" compression test is? I was taught by the old school generation and most of those who taught me, were poor and had to "shade-tree" engineer. Haha, so please let me know how to do that. I don't know if I'll have time (daylight) to remove the 02 sensors, but I'll definitely try.

Once again thanks so much for all the help buddy, and thanks for readin' my long drawn out messages full of ADD symptoms like going off topic lol Anyway, take it easy man, and I'll get back with you tomorrow.

91TwighlightGT · May 21, 2013

You are right, I was thinking that the 2.3l changed to mass air after 86, but it wasn't until 91 when it went DIS I suppose.

No problem helping, always want to keep another 2.3L Mustang on the road - they are getting to be a rare breed.

Remember, the compression test is important but I wouldn't even worry about it until you are able to pull codes first.

Now, how to do a proper compression test...

Proper compression should be more than 100 PSI according to the specs, but 100 is the bare minimum and pretty low. This article it explains it quite well...

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford/compression/2.3L/engine_compression_test_1.php

Part 1
This tutorial will help you do a ‘Dry’ and ‘Wet’ Engine Compression Test on your 2.3L Ford Ranger or Ford Mustang (or 2.3L Mazda B2300).
This tutorial will help you troubleshoot 2 different Conditions:

A Rough Idle Condition (Misfire Condition) due to Low Compression in one or two Cylinders.

A No Start due to Low or No Compression on all 4 Cylinders.

There are two different types of Compression Tests that I'm gonna' show you, one's called a ‘Dry’ Compression Test and the other is called a ‘Wet’ Compression Test.
Both of these test will help you determine the health of the Engine. The ‘Wet’ Compression Test will help you further pinpoint a Low Compression test result to either worn Cylinder Head Valves or worn Piston Rings.
OK, to make it as easy as possible to navigate this article, here are its contents at a quick glance:

Symptoms of BAD Engine Compression.

What Tools Do I Need?

Dry Compression Test.

Interpreting the Results of the Engine Compression Test.

Wet Compression Test.

Symptoms of BAD Engine Compression

The most obvious symptom, that you're gonna' feel, when one or several Cylinders have low Compression is a Rough Idle Condition.
Although it doesn't happen all of the time, but if your 2.3L Ford Vehicle is OBD II equipped (1996+), you're gonna' see Misfire Codes stored in the PCM's memory:

Misfire Diagnostic Trouble Codes:

P0300: Random Cylinder Misfire.

P0301: Cylinder #1 Misfire.

P0302: Cylinder #2 Misfire.

P0303: Cylinder #3 Misfire.

P0304: Cylinder #4 Misfire.

No Compression in all of the Cylinders will result in a Cranks but Does not Start Condition. The symptoms you'll see will be:

No Start.

Everything else works, for example:

The Fuel Pump will activate, so you'll see Fuel Pressure at specification (if testing with a Fuel Pressure Gauge).

All of the Spark Plug Wires have Spark.

If the Coil Packs are Sparking, then this indirectly proves that the Crank Sensor is OK too.

The PCM will still activate all of the Fuel Injectors.

What Tools do I Need?

The most important tool that you're gonna' need is a Compression Tester. You can either rent this bad boy from your local Auto Parts Store (Auto Zone, O'reilly, Advanced Auto Parts, etc.), or you can buy one online.
Since the Spark Plugs need to be removed, you'll need some of the following basic tools:

Ratchet Wrench.

5/8'' Spark Plug Socket.

Extensions for the Ratchet Wrench.

Motor Oil (for the ‘Wet’ Compression Test part).

Spark Plug Wire puller.

In case you're needing to buy a Compression Tester and want to save money by buying it online.. you can shop here:

Page 2
Interpreting the Results
of the Engine Compression Test.

CASE 1: If you got a reading of 100 PSI or less (less being 0 PSI) on all of the Cylinders you tested... you've got serious Engine mechanical problems.
If you got 0 PSI Compression on all 4 Cylinders, it sounds like you've got a broken Timing Belt on your Hands. The next step is to remove the Timing Cover and check the actual condition of the Timing Belt.
What is common, if you have a very high mileage Engine... is low compression across the board. Low usually means anything under 120 PSI (although the service manual says 100 PSI is the minimum). If your Engine has reached this point... it's also smoking from the quart of oil it's burning every few days. The other symptoms you'll see is that the idle will be very rough.
CASE 2: One or two Cylinders gave a low compression value. This might be normal, since each cylinder will not give the exact same pressure value.
What is NOT normal if the pressures vary by 15% or more. That's right, the individual cylinder compression readings of each engine cylinder can not vary more than 15%... and this is how you can find out:

Grab a calculator and multiply the highest compression reading that you recorded by .15.

Let's use the following Compression readings to explain the point:

Cylinder #1 175 PSI.

Cylinder #2 160 PSI.

Cylinder #3 165 PSI .

Cylinder #4 95 PSI .

The next step is to do the math: 175 x .15= 26, 175-26= 149.

So then, 149 PSI is the lowest possible compression reading that any one of the rest of the engine cylinders can have. Any compression reading below this.. and that engine cylinder will misfire.

This means that Cylinder #4 is the one causing the Misfire

The next step is to do a ‘Wet’ Compression Test on the dead or low compression Cylinder... and this test is explained in the next page...

Page 3

In this section, you're gonna' do a ‘Wet’ Compression Test on the Cylinder or Cylinders that gave you a Low Compression reading.
The ‘Wet’ Compression Test is just a simple variation of the Compression Test you did in the previous page... the difference being that you're gonna' add about 2 tablespoons of Engine Oil to the Cylinders with Low Compression.
The reason for adding Engine Oil, is that if the Low Compression is being caused by worn Piston Rings... the Oil will seal the Rings (in the affected Cylinder) and cause the Compression Pressure to increase. This increase of pressure will be very obvious on your Compression Tester.
Now, if the problem is Worn Cylinder Head Valves... no amount of Oil will seal them and thus the Compression reading will stay the same as when you did the ‘Dry’ Compression Test.
OK, this is what you need to do:

Add a small amount of Engine Oil to the Cylinder that reported low compression or no compression in the ‘Dry’ Compression Test

The amount should be about 1 to 2 tablespoons of oil.

Install the Compression Tester onto the Cylinder.

Do not use any type of tool to tightened the Compression Tester... hand tight is fine.

When all is set up, have your helper crank the Engine.

You'll get one of two results, either the compression value will go up (from the one you recorded before) or it will stay the same.

CASE 1: The Compression value shot up.. This tells you that the Piston Compression Rings are worn out and thus the problem is in the bottom end.
CASE 2: The Compression Value stayed the same.. This confirms that the problem is in the Cylinder Head Valves.

91TwighlightGT · May 21, 2013

Also, for our purposes we are looking for low compression on probably 2 cylinders, indicating a blown head gasket.

Kent Snyder · May 21, 2013

91TwighlightGT said:
Also, for our purposes we are looking for low compression on probably 2 cylinders, indicating a blown head gasket.

Just went outside with a drop light and found my problem. My EGR was stuck closed, AND was missing one of the two bolts. That left a 1/16 inch gap on the bottom of the base plate because it wasn't bolted down. I would've tried to have started it right then, but unfortunately yesterday I torqued down the ground wire too hard on my Starter Solenoid and broke it in half, AND I need a couple washers because the bolt I found that fits the EGR is too long and comes in contact with the intake before the bolt head can be flush. So change of plans tomorrow, I'm going to go grab some washers and a solenoid and let's hope that solves it! If not, I'll pull some more hair out and keep on truckin'.

91TwighlightGT · May 21, 2013

Good, I thought EGR might be a culprit - it seems to be a problem for a lot of people on these 2.3l cars for some reason.

Kent Snyder · May 22, 2013

91TwighlightGT said:
Good, I thought EGR might be a culprit - it seems to be a problem for a lot of people on these 2.3l cars for some reason.

Nope... that wasn't it. It actually has gotten worse now that I fixed the EGR. Heres a vid of what it does:

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

Shawneebear93 · May 22, 2013

Kent Snyder said:
I torqued down the ground wire too hard on my Starter Solenoid and broke it in half

I did that about a month ago, don't feel bad!

Kent Snyder · May 22, 2013

tealtiger93 said:
I did that about a month ago, don't feel bad!

Hahaha yeah it sucks. First my stocker solenoid was bad, then, I broke the new one I bought by torquing it down to hard, then, I crossthreaded the nut on the one I bought right after that, and i just got another one. The guy at Autozone thinks it's hilarious. Lol do you have any advice on this whole situation? I really need as mauch input as possible. Anything helps! Thanks

***UPDATE*** what ports do you use on the PCM when using a volt meter to pull codes?

Kent Snyder · May 22, 2013

91TwighlightGT said:
Good, I thought EGR might be a culprit - it seems to be a problem for a lot of people on these 2.3l cars for some reason.

Oh, and I pulled codes. I got a 22, 23, and a 32. TPS, MAP, and EGR.

91TwighlightGT · May 22, 2013

Throttle position sensor, Manifold air pressure, and EGR still has an issue.

Problems you are experiencing are possibly from the MAP sensor - either it is faulty, or you have a vacuum or wiring issue causing it to throw a code.

Also could be causing your EGR code, or perhaps the EGR is causing it to have an issue. This is where I would start, though.

http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=27

To prevent the replacement of good components, be aware that the following non-EEC areas may be at fault:

*Unusually high/low barometric pressure.
*Kinked or obstructed vacuum lines (MAP).
*Basic engine (valves, vacuum leaks, timing, EGR valve, etc.).

The Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor operates as a piezoelectric (pressure-sensing) disc. However, rather than generating a voltage, its output is a frequency change. The sensor changes frequency relative to intake manifold vacuum. The sensor frequency increases as vacuum increases. The MAP sensor allows the PCM to determine what the engine load is. Its signal affects air/fuel ratio, ignition timing, EGR flow and altitude compensation.

http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/ford/4.9L-5.0L-5.8L/how-to-test-the-map-sensor-1

Symptoms of a BAD MAP Sensor

When the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor goes BAD, you'll get a failed MAP Sensor Diagnostic Trouble Code.
You'll see one of the following Trouble Codes:
Code 22: MAP Sensor out of range.
Code 72: Insufficient MAP change during Dynamic Response Test.
Code 126: MAP/BARO Sensor higher or lower than normal.
Code 128: MAP Sensor vacuum hose damaged or disconnected.
Code 129: Insufficient MAP change during dynamic response test KOER.

You'll also experience:

Engine cranks for a long time before it starts.
When the Engine starts, you get a lot of black smoke coming out of the tail-pipe.
Engine stalls as soon as it starts.
If the Engine stays running, it idles very rough.
If the Engine runs, you'll get really bad gas mileage.

The Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor is one of the most critical sensors the PCM (Powertrain Control Module = Fuel Injection Computer) needs to give the Engine in your car, pickup, van or SUV running optimally and so, when the MAP Sensor fails... you'll get some hard symptoms.

TPS code is a little troubling, but could explain the high idle and things that you were experiencing prior to your no start condition. TPS can certainly create some funny driveability characteristics. I'd still try to tackle the MAP sensor issue first, and if the TPS code remains then it could also be faulty or have a poor connection/wiring issue.

Kent Snyder · May 24, 2013

91TwighlightGT said:
Throttle position sensor, Manifold air pressure, and EGR still has an issue.

Problems you are experiencing are possibly from the MAP sensor - either it is faulty, or you have a vacuum or wiring issue causing it to throw a code.

Also could be causing your EGR code, or perhaps the EGR is causing it to have an issue. This is where I would start, though.

http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=27

http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/ford/4.9L-5.0L-5.8L/how-to-test-the-map-sensor-1

TPS code is a little troubling, but could explain the high idle and things that you were experiencing prior to your no start condition. TPS can certainly create some funny driveability characteristics. I'd still try to tackle the MAP sensor issue first, and if the TPS code remains then it could also be faulty or have a poor connection/wiring issue.

I got it man... you won't believe what it was... After all these months, it turn out that my distributor was turned 180 degrees out. I never even checked it. I started to notice when I went back to the basics like every good gearhead should. I thought why not go back over the simplest of simple things, because those are most often what is overlooked. So I did. Hahaha wow.

91TwighlightGT · May 25, 2013

Yep, that will do it!

Glad you got her squared away.

Kent Snyder · May 25, 2013

91TwighlightGT said:
Yep, that will do it!

Glad you got her squared away.

Thanks for all the help!

Kent Snyder · May 26, 2013

91TwighlightGT said:
Yep, that will do it!

Glad you got her squared away.

New issue... Now it will idle and purr like a kitten, and you can give it a LITTLE throttle, and keep it alive as long as you want, but if you give it TOO much throttle, it dies. It's acting like an old carbureted 302 with too big of a Venturi Pipe. Man, I mean, it's like it's acting as if there's too much fuel, but my injectors are stock.

***EDIT*** How do you check for proper voltage on a MAP sensor?

91TwighlightGT · May 26, 2013

You'll have to check the link I posted above...

the Ford MAP Sensor does not produce a MAP Signal that can be measured in Volts DC. You’ll need a Multimeter that can read Hertz Frequency.

Shawneebear93 · May 28, 2013

Kent Snyder said:
Lol do you have any advice on this whole situation? I really need as mauch input as possible. Anything helps! Thanks

Not really, sorry!

Please Help... 2.3 N/a Won't Run

Kent Snyder

New Member

91TwighlightGT

Kent Snyder

New Member

91TwighlightGT

Kent Snyder

New Member

91TwighlightGT

91TwighlightGT

Kent Snyder

New Member

91TwighlightGT

Kent Snyder

New Member

Shawneebear93

Kent Snyder

New Member

Kent Snyder

New Member

91TwighlightGT

Kent Snyder

New Member

91TwighlightGT

Kent Snyder

New Member

Kent Snyder

New Member

91TwighlightGT

Shawneebear93

Similar threads

Please Help... 2.3 N/a Won't Run

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency