PMS Experts, a few questions, lil help please

William741 · Mar 29, 2006

Ok, I just went out and hooked up my PMS for the first time. I went through the tables and zeroed everything, Part Throttle, WOT, made sure stand-along and boost was turned off, all that stuff. I think i got everything.

Anyhow, i think everything is zeroed, so i saved it to all three program spots then loaded one and fired it up. She's all warmed up so I took it for a drive and was watching the screen (safely) Anyhow, I stomp it in 2nd and around 5k it starts sputtering like a rev limiter. So i went into the menu's and found the 1st limiter set at 5k. Is that whats causing it? Im not sure how that is activated?

Second question is I also watched my Injector duty cycle and it peaked at around 94% So looks like its time for new injectors? I figured it was but it's nice to see some proof.
I also watched timing and it peaked at 31, no crazy numbers there

And lastely, since i don't have a wideband *yet* would it be ok w/ new injectors just to add fuel to be safe for awhile?

Thanks, and sorry for the novel Thanks, Will

nmcgrawj · Mar 29, 2006

Is stand alone on? It has to be on to override the factory rev limiter.

Your combo seems pretty basic so there are no real harsh dangers from tuning without the wideband. You can go to stangtuning and look in the programs section and find a similar combo to give u an **IDEA*** of what yours should be around. That way u can get in the neighborhood. The only thing u cant accurately tune in my experience without a wideband is WOT. Part throttle and idle u can usually get pretty close.

William741 · Mar 29, 2006

Im sure standalone was off... I'll check again in the morning.

i know before the pms it didn't cut/sputter like that.

And before I zeroe'd it out, the wot/high load tables had fuel added in them so i left it like that to see what it did and it didn't sputter then either
But when I reset it all to zero's it started doing it. Hmmmm.

Anyhow, about the injector cycle at 94%, thats showing the stock 19's are at the limits right?

The main thing is I don't want to hurt this engine, thats what makes me nervous.

Thanks for the help Nmcgraw, and for answering my silly questions

Thanks, Will

nmcgrawj · Mar 29, 2006

William741 said:
Im sure standalone was off... I'll check again in the morning.

i know before the pms it didn't cut/sputter like that.

And before I zeroe'd it out, the wot/high load tables had fuel added in them so i left it like that to see what it did and it didn't sputter then either
But when I reset it all to zero's it started doing it. Hmmmm.

Anyhow, about the injector cycle at 94%, thats showing the stock 19's are at the limits right?

The main thing is I don't want to hurt this engine, thats what makes me nervous.

Thanks for the help Nmcgraw, and for answering my silly questions

Thanks, Will

So u're saying that when it had the fuel it didnt cut out? That must mean its running lean...i cant imagine it being THAT lean it cuts out. But i would just add the fuel that was there if thats what makes it happy.

Im not sure on the injectors, but im pretty sure i remember that u dont want your injectors working that hard, so i would be with u in thinking that its time for an upgrade.

U have a pretty popular combo, so shoot over to stangtuning and find a similar combo and run that. It wont be optimal but it should be close enough so u dont have to "worry" about hurting anything.

Also, do u have an aftermarket ignition on it?

William741 · Mar 29, 2006

Yeah, i'm pretty sure it didnt cut out like that before i reset the fuel. Yeah, I've found a few combos over there that are similar w/ the exception of the injectors. I'll be getting those next and I'll be tinkering w/ it over the next few days and see what i can come up with.

The ignition is still all stock. It probably wouldnt hurt to get a new set of wires/cap/rotor as its pretty old.

Thanks, Will

nmcgrawj · Mar 29, 2006

You dont have a ignition box like MSD, mallory, crane? Consider yourself lucky. You're in a 94-95 right? If u are u're lucky to rev over 3-4000 rpms. You need an ignition box with a PMS on 94-95s.

final5-0 · Mar 29, 2006

nmcgrawj said:
You need an ignition box with a PMS on 94-95s.

I've never seen this kinda talk before Nate.

Is an upgraded ignition a must have if you tune with PMS on our cars?

Grady

blksn955.o · Mar 29, 2006

final5-0 said:
I've never seen this kinda talk before Nate.

Is an upgraded ignition a must have if you tune with PMS on our cars?

Grady

double up

I have never heard of this without a poweradder or high comp. on our cars...much less a tuner. Why?

nmcgrawj · Mar 29, 2006

final5-0 said:
I've never seen this kinda talk before Nate.

Is an upgraded ignition a must have if you tune with PMS on our cars?

Grady

Well the thing is this. Since our TFI module is mounted on the fender and not on the dizzy like the fox's, so the signal is weaker. The PMS has problems picking up the signal so at like 3500rpms it will stutter and hit a "rev limiter" type of wall. The new ignition makes the signal strong enough so there is no problem.

Most of the time guys already have an ignition so its not a problem u see too often.

blksn955.o · Mar 29, 2006

huh...guess that kinda makes sense.

But (just a thought) dont you think its kinda crappy??? ??? the PMS cannot pick up on something that a factory ign. has no problems with until a poweradder or high comp. is tossed on/into the eq?

I am wondering if its more of a "old" wire issue like the wires are de-graded to the point of "funky-ness". I am just thinking that the diff. in resistance from the extra length of wire cannot be that bad.

nmcgrawj · Mar 29, 2006

blksn955.o said:
huh...guess that kinda makes sense.

But (just a thought) dont you think its kinda crappy??? ??? the PMS cannot pick up on something that a factory ign. has no problems with until a poweradder or high comp. is tossed on/into the eq?

I am wondering if its more of a "old" wire issue like the wires are de-graded to the point of "funky-ness". I am just thinking that the diff. in resistance from the extra length of wire cannot be that bad.

I didnt like to hear this either...especially the hard way . But it makes perfect since. For example, the Tweecer is using the eec itself where the PMS has its own brain. And that brain has to pick up those signals that the eec normally does and modify them faster than the eec did to begin with. I dont know the specifics but i do know that Gary or Troy often ask this question if problems like this one arise. So if u want to know more, i would hit up stangtuning and ask one of those guys.

I just know the basics and the fix.

blksn955.o · Mar 29, 2006

yeah, I can see the PMS being the newer faster computer getting wiggd' out buy some old processors signal that way. Would also explain why the stock signal is ok without a PMS.

I just wonder what the percentage of people who have this problem v. those with "old" wire issues. If its that common for the PMS...damn I wonder if we all have something to gain from going to a fox dizzy TFI setup then.

William741 · Mar 30, 2006

Yep, it's still all factory ignition and it wasn't doing it before the PMS. That makes sense what your saying, but it sucks at the same time. I wondered what the hell was going on, lol.

So picking up an msd box, like the 6Al will take care of thise? I was planning on it anyhow, especially since i will have a poweradded in the future, and the ford spring swap is this weekend

Thanks, Will

final5-0 · Mar 30, 2006

This is something we need to make made known when peeps are trying to consider a self tuning interface.

I've seen countless Which Self Tuner threads on all these forums, and this is the very first time anyone has made this fact known.

It is a pretty good chunk of change after all

Does anyone know if you have to upgrade the ignition if you go the SCT route?

Grady

nmcgrawj · Mar 30, 2006

I've mentioned it before in threads, i wont say i've said it in every last one of them, but i've brought it up before.

But its interesting, cause his car isnt cutting out to way above the "normal" point...atleast the point i experienced it at. My car wouldnt rev at ALL

I dont know anything about SCT Does it piggy back the eec like the PMS or does it change the eec settings like the tweecer?

VibrantRedGT · Mar 30, 2006

Just a couple of thoughts. If your injector duty is 94% then try turning up the fuel pressure on the adjustable fuel regulator so at WOT it stays under 85%. What is the fuel pressure set at?

I would turn stand alone ON. If you have no tuning in the PMS at WOT the PMS will take control after 4000 rpm. Keeps things nice and safe.

The timing number looks good so don't mess with it.

William741 · Mar 30, 2006

Just for S&G's i unhooked the pms at work, and sure enough the spit/sputter i was getting at 5k went away.

What all will I be looking to add in the ignition to get rid of this problem?

Also, I still need to get an AFPR, it's all factory currently.

Since the PMS is all zero'd out, isn't it just running off of the factory setting's since the pms isn't adjusting anything?

Thanks, Will

nmcgrawj · Mar 30, 2006

William741 said:
Just for S&G's i unhooked the pms at work, and sure enough the spit/sputter i was getting at 5k went away.

What all will I be looking to add in the ignition to get rid of this problem?

Also, I still need to get an AFPR, it's all factory currently.

Since the PMS is all zero'd out, isn't it just running off of the factory setting's since the pms isn't adjusting anything?

Thanks, Will

Just the ignition box...and it'll probably need a coil to handle the extra power.

Its running off the factory stuff if standalone is not on. 99% sure anyway.

William741 · Mar 31, 2006

I think I'll just get the 6A box, there's really no need for the extra rev limiter. I don't even rev to the factory one now.

Thanks for the help on this. I never would have guessed it was losing the signal, but it makes sense for sure.

I still have plenty of work to do, and still have to get a wideband.

Thanks for all the help, Will

nmcgrawj · Mar 31, 2006

But didnt u say that it wont cut out if it has the fuel in it? I thought u said before u took it out, it wasnt a problem.

Just wanted to ask so u could do that before u go out and buy an ignition.

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