With the fall of the Camaro/Firebird line, Ford has no competition against the mustang now. So, like when Russia fell the U.S. was left with nothing else to do except waste time and money on humanitarian stuff, which is nice, but we kind of let our guard down and ie. Sept. 11. My fear is that Ford will make the same mistake with the Mustang a lead it down the same path as the Thunderbird. I like the 2005, its looks good and seems to have good performance, but the retro look it a little to modern for me. I liked the new T-bird also but I don't think I would buy one. The other option is to compete with the corvette, but that will put the Mustang in a new price range make it a rich mans toy which the price is slowly creeping up there. A 1993 Cobra cost just over $20K brand, and 03 Cobra is nearly double. I don't want to see the mustang have the same fate as the t-bird and F-body GM.
Problem with new mustang
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The Mustang is in no real danger of going the way of the F-body.
It's a liveable car that is readily accessable to most people with it's entry level version and it also provides something nice all along the pricing scale.
The F-body though a great performer was NOT liveable as far as most people are concerned. As far as performance is concerned they easily have competition even though there are no direct foes that exactly mirror the Stang(and I say that only in present tense because it's likely to have a lot of competition REAL soon)there are opponents out there still.
It's a liveable car that is readily accessable to most people with it's entry level version and it also provides something nice all along the pricing scale.
The F-body though a great performer was NOT liveable as far as most people are concerned. As far as performance is concerned they easily have competition even though there are no direct foes that exactly mirror the Stang(and I say that only in present tense because it's likely to have a lot of competition REAL soon)there are opponents out there still.
RiceEating5.0
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Gotta remember,even cars like the Rx8, 350z, GTO, STi, EVO, WRX, etc.... can be conisdered competitors.They're all vying for a pirce of the 24-35k performance car market.
Btw: When you're outsold 3 to 1, you stop being a serious competitors...and that's both f-bods combined. That, and the z28 has been handing the GT its ass on a platter since 93. They always killed us in the hp department. The 2002 z28 had close to 80rwhp over the GT. Proof that the only numbers Ford cared for were the sales numbers. Ford did its thing with the GT and chevy did its own thing with the z28. The z28 didn't play that much of a role.
Btw: When you're outsold 3 to 1, you stop being a serious competitors...and that's both f-bods combined. That, and the z28 has been handing the GT its ass on a platter since 93. They always killed us in the hp department. The 2002 z28 had close to 80rwhp over the GT. Proof that the only numbers Ford cared for were the sales numbers. Ford did its thing with the GT and chevy did its own thing with the z28. The z28 didn't play that much of a role.
Well, thats the thing, in order for the Mustang to compete, they will have to go against cars like the WRX and EVO which do command $25K-35K. But those cars have the mustang beat as far as reliability and fuel economy etc. Plus some of those cars are faster than the GT. In order to compete you need to go with a Cobra which is in the $30-40 range. Ford seems to be aiming the new stang to higher end markets. Yeah you can get a V6 for $20 and a base GT for $25 but a new cobra will be $35 +. The mustang is an old name. It has been around for a long time and they are making it to retro and it is still a Ford. There are no brembo brakes, koni suspension, etc. The T-Bird was the same way, it looked nice, it brought back memories, but it did not offer anything spectacular.
Reliability and fuel economy? What're you smoking? The WRX has one of the weakest transmissions ever to see a "performance" car. The EVO and STi have similar real world fuel economy numbers to the Mustang. And the Mustang is in no way competing with these cars for sales. Yes, on the street it will be in competition with those cars, but how does a car that comfortably seats four adults and has AWD compete with a pony car? Different targets there. That's where a tuned Focus would come in (unfortunately, Ford just doesn't understand this simple concept - let SVT go nuts with that car and keep the price under $24k).
There is no domestic competition for the Mustang, that much we know. The GTO and Corvette are priced out of the typical range of a Mustang, and are too low volume to have a sales impact anyway. The Eclipse, Celica, RX-8, and 350Z are the competitors. Yes, those first three are contenders, despite their hideous looks. The Eclipse and Celica will compete for sales with the V6 Mustang, and maybe even the GT if the import crowd continues to buy into the notion that the Celica looks fast, or that the new Eclipse concept doesn't deserve to be put out of my misery (seriously, that car is so painfully ugly that I can't even look at pictures for more than a few seconds without wanting to sear my eyeballs out with a curling iron).
This talk about the Cobra is starting to get rediculous. We know that SVT is going to produce a modified Mustang eventually. We don't know that it will be 2006. We don't know that it will be called Cobra. We don't know the price range. We can speculate, but to think that we can compare a car we know next to nothing about to a car like GTO, Corvette, Viper, etc etc while we discuss the new Mustang (something we know quite a bit about), is a bit rediculous.
There is no domestic competition for the Mustang, that much we know. The GTO and Corvette are priced out of the typical range of a Mustang, and are too low volume to have a sales impact anyway. The Eclipse, Celica, RX-8, and 350Z are the competitors. Yes, those first three are contenders, despite their hideous looks. The Eclipse and Celica will compete for sales with the V6 Mustang, and maybe even the GT if the import crowd continues to buy into the notion that the Celica looks fast, or that the new Eclipse concept doesn't deserve to be put out of my misery (seriously, that car is so painfully ugly that I can't even look at pictures for more than a few seconds without wanting to sear my eyeballs out with a curling iron).
This talk about the Cobra is starting to get rediculous. We know that SVT is going to produce a modified Mustang eventually. We don't know that it will be 2006. We don't know that it will be called Cobra. We don't know the price range. We can speculate, but to think that we can compare a car we know next to nothing about to a car like GTO, Corvette, Viper, etc etc while we discuss the new Mustang (something we know quite a bit about), is a bit rediculous.
Mustangs are reliable cars, I don't know of many cars out there that can take the abuse that these cars do and still make it through everyday driving. How many of us beat the **** outta our cars every time we get in them and they still get us were we need to go (with regular maintanence). Gas mileage difference is not as bad as you may think. Also, you won't need a Cobra to compete, the '05 GT comes with 300+ hp for 25k, similar to the current MACh 1, and many MACh owners are dipping into the 12's via some simple mods like exhaust, gears and tires...shoot that right there is sweet enough. 05 GT will be the most powerful car for the price.
I not argueing with any of you. I enjoy the Mustang my self. I guess what I am trying to say is that Ford does not care so much about the performance as it does sales. And the market seems to be gearing more towards the import type cars. And Ford will ultimately go to where the sales are and destroy the Mustang we all love. And no one has released definate numbers, but I think its going to cost quite more $ to get the good performance.
spanky442 said:
Lately I agree, keeping the GT at 260 h.p. for the last couple of years was a joke.
They should have bumped the hp up every couple of years. I can't believe before the 03 Cobra, they're most powerful vehicle was a pickup truck and not a Mustang they're "flagship performance car" 
67coupe
Founding Member
CatmanJJ said:Lately I agree, keeping the GT at 260 h.p. for the last couple of years was a joke.
Don't post in the 05 section much. But owning a 67 pony and graduating college in less than a year has this car pulling at my heart strings.
I think we all can agree that Ford has made some questionable descisions and had a major dip in quality during the majority of the last ten years. But, two people are changing that in a hurry. John Coleti (sp?) and Bill Ford Jr. Come on, he said if he could have one car to drive the rest of his life it would be a mustang. Remember his commercial when he first took over the company. Also, look at what Ford Motor Company has approve the last 2-3 years. Three special edition mustangs(Cobra R, Bullit, Mach 1), a 360+ hp truck, a 390+ hp Cobra, the Ford GT, and they are teasing us with the idea of a Shelby Cobra.
Ford Motor Company is stronger than ever and judging by the buzz the production mustang has started it's right there with them. Not to mention the success of the new F-150. It's hard to believe the hole they dug themselves out of after the reign of Jacque Nassar. Even thier current slogan almost admits that they've had some hard times, "If you haven't look at Ford lately, look again.
If anyone didn't read the MM & FF interview with John C. on the reason the '03 cobra got a blower, you need to. It was great. This is the kind of man we need at Ford. I'm excited, Ford is on the rise again.
Just my 2 cents on the big picture.
Later.
spanky442 said:
Of course they do. If they did not get the sales, we certainly would lose the Mustang, just like the Chevy guys lost the fbods. That proves that its not all about hp. For years we screamed for rear wheel disc when the f-bods had them. We still dont have a six speed in the GT, but the F-bods had them since 93. They stomped us in pure hp numbers as well. What did all that get them? Extinction. Look at the cars you mentioned. Celica, wrx, 350Z, GTO. You can't get a wrx for what you pay for a GT, and they are butt ugly anyway. Celica-noncompetitor for the GT. 350Z-yuppy car, not even direct competition for the GT and much more expensive. GTO-the price on that thing puts it in competition with the Cobra. Right now in Houston, you can find GT's on sale for around 20k. The new one may command sticker at first, but after mass production will probably be able to be had for 22k. Thats on a complete redesign, with better handling, higher hp and supposed to finally have more quality interior components. I'm willing to bet the Mustang will be around alot longer than alot of those imports. The 350Z just came back after several years of hiatus. The GTO is coming back, but I'll bet not for long. They will price it out of the market. Ford is doing the smarter thing. They offer the base v6 for the women and children and the v8 for the car guys. Then the cobra and specialty models for the richer car guys. Do you think they could build the cobra alone without the V6 and GT? No way. They don't make their money on the cobra. They make their money on the base and GT models which allows them to build the cobras. That is why the GTO won't make it long. They won't make their money on it cause it has no lower models to snag sales. Bottom line is Ford is smart enough not to build the GT to strong and have to price it out of the market.
I think that the original post this thread is about the fear that the Mustang is going to be beyond affordability if it keeps going up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up in price like it has over the last 15 years. Then only the rich bastards are going to be able to afford the Mustang. That's what this thread is originally about so don't get off the subject.
Thank You, That and also that is Ford tries to conquer the market and come out on top and out to their competition and think they got everyone else by the b*lls, they will lose. They need to keep the people that brought the mustang about as well as the rest of the company. Henry Ford's idea was to build an affordable car so that the world would be on wheels. He accomplished that and Ford should continue to do that. F- sale, sure they should make money and try to stay fresh, but don't forget the people that put you there. The mustang did not become so popular because a bunch of rich old business man decided to relive thier youth all of a sudden. Mustang became popular because of the people that are out their tuning their old five liters and restoring the old classic. Mustang got its start because it was a cheap sports coupe that appealed to the younger generation, not to be a rich man's toy. They tried that with the T-Bird and it failed. The GT-40 is a rich man's car as will be the new cobra. Where is our gift, oooooo we get a new mustang that cost $2K+ more. Lucky us.
tylers65
I've got your tool right here!
oliverqueen said:
I think you need to calm down a bit. The above statement is not a good way to leave a decent first impression in a forum.
Getting back to the original topic...
If you consider sub-$30k, American, V8 RWD sport coupes, Then no, the mustang does not have any competition.
Of course, this view is wrong.
If you consider the number of well built, capable, performance oriented cars out there, built by any number of manufacturers all going after the same demographic, then there is a heluva lot of competition out there.
If you consider sub-$30k, American, V8 RWD sport coupes, Then no, the mustang does not have any competition.
Of course, this view is wrong.
If you consider the number of well built, capable, performance oriented cars out there, built by any number of manufacturers all going after the same demographic, then there is a heluva lot of competition out there.
oh yes,comparing the world of cars to 1000's of people dying is a better way of making an impression.well then,hmmm,let me see,if ford doesn't watch it,the mustang will wind up like the challenger.like JFK having his head blown off,the same could happen to the mustang if ford loses its focus.
tylers65
I've got your tool right here!
oliverqueen said:
The whole point is simple.
Just as the USA let their guard down and something bad happened, Ford could be letting their guard down too. There seems to be a latent fear that the Mustang could be a casualty if Ford continues to leave their guard down.
Simple enough?
Now I am TELLING you to lay off. He said something that was taken the wrong way, leave it at that.
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