Proper Caster & Camber

Dr Jay · May 28, 2008

My Ford dealer is having a little trouble getting my car lined up properly. I installed MM CC plates with the Bilstein's so there is plenty of room to make adjustments but the guy doing the line up says his computer is set up with stock ride height only so he has to compensate for that. Does this sound right to you guys? It's wondering a little bit so he told me to come back tomorrow.

I mentioned the recommended specs provided by MM (caster 4.5 degrees positive, camber .5 degrees negative) and he told me to bring it back in tomorrow with the specs and he would do it again at no charge (after a little argument). I'm running sportlines with the lower isolator removed in the front so I have a pretty good drop. Anyone have any advice before I go back tomorrow?

SaleenGT2001 · May 28, 2008

he is an idiot!

i do alignments everyday and i can tell you he has no f'n clue what he is talking about.
camber and caster spec is not affected by lowering. you can make up ANY spec you want and align ANY CAR to it. i can set your mustang up 10 different ways and keep it wearing tires correctly. hell, i can align your car to chevy truck specs if i want to.

tell him you make the adjustments at the plate up top. i know if sounds obvious but he isnt the brightest from what you posted. ask him why the ride height would change the spec to which the car is aligned to.

tell them you want it set up like this

RF LF
camber -0.5 camber -0.5
caster 4.0 caster 4.5

you can set toe to the stock spec. this will keep your car running right

if you want i can PM you my number so i can explain what an alignment is for him. i'm guessing he is using a Hunter alignment rack so i can tell him step by step how it should be done

Dr Jay · May 28, 2008

Many thanks SaleenGT2001

I was thinking he was an idiot but I didn't want to put my foot in my mouth as I have no experience in this area. I didn't understand why he was saying the ride height had anything to do with it. I was playing along nicely until he said it would probably only be another 1/2 hr labor, and at that point I spoke up and after I made my point he asked the service manager who said there would be no charge tomorrow.

I'll be sure to test him to see if he is adjusting the plates at all
Why is the caster on the LF different than the RF? Again I have no experience so I really appreciate your input.

SaleenGT2001 · May 28, 2008

the caster is basically how far forward the wheels sit if you were looking from the top.

the car will pull to the side with the least amount of caster. on a perfectly FLAT road you would run an even amount of caster on both sides. however MOST roads you drive on are sloped to the right to allow for rain run off. therefore setting your right tire slightly ahead of your left tire it pulls your car up the road crown and allows the car to drive straight down the road.

i don't know if that will make any sense but thats why you offset caster.

please post up a copy of the specs they print off for you tomorrow.i wanna see if this guy has any clue what he is doing.

SaleenGT2001 · May 28, 2008

this should help

Dr Jay · May 29, 2008

SaleenGT2001 said:
the caster is basically how far forward the wheels sit if you were looking from the top.

the car will pull to the side with the least amount of caster. on a perfectly FLAT road you would run an even amount of caster on both sides. however MOST roads you drive on are sloped to the right to allow for rain run off. therefore setting your right tire slightly ahead of your left tire it pulls your car up the road crown and allows the car to drive straight down the road.

i don't know if that will make any sense but thats why you offset caster.

please post up a copy of the specs they print off for you tomorrow.i wanna see if this guy has any clue what he is doing.

That makes perfect sense to me. He didn't give me anything the first time so I'll be sure to ask for a print out today and post it up.

flstang65 · May 29, 2008

yes, he's an idiot. i had a guy at firestone to do my ex's car. bought the lifetime alignemtn for 99 on sale. this guy was the ****zle.... he would nail any setup i wanted on the first try.

Mustang5L5 · May 29, 2008

Is there such a thing as a 4-wheel alignment with a Mustang? Or do you get a 2-wheel alignment?

Nothing on the rear end is adjustable, but aren't the front wheels adjusted in relation to the thrust angle of the rear wheels?

SO do I get a 4 or 2 wheel?

Dr Jay · May 29, 2008

Hey SaleenGT2001, I gave him the exact numbers you mentioned and this is the printout I got back. Am I ok here? The numbers look a little different than what I expected to get in return.

View attachment 316275

chuck943 · May 29, 2008

Mustang5L5 said:
Is there such a thing as a 4-wheel alignment with a Mustang? Or do you get a 2-wheel alignment?

Nothing on the rear end is adjustable, but aren't the front wheels adjusted in relation to the thrust angle of the rear wheels?

SO do I get a 4 or 2 wheel?

What you get is what we call a thrust angle alignment. You hook the sensors to all four wheels this finds the center line of the vehicle so you can adjust for the offset in the rear axle( the rear axle on the majority of vehicles are not perfectly centered),see the spec sheet at the bottom posted earlier as thrust angle and also see what his other specs are on the rear wheels. In laymans terms if your rear axle is offset say 1/4 of an inch and u just align the front the vehicle may pull slightly or should I say push one way or the other.

SaleenGT2001 · May 29, 2008

chuck943 said:
What you get is what we call a thrust angle alignment. You hook the sensors to all four wheels this finds the center line of the vehicle so you can adjust for the offset in the rear axle( the rear axle on the majority of vehicles are not perfectly centered),see the spec sheet at the bottom posted earlier as thrust angle and also see what his other specs are on the rear wheels. In laymans terms if your rear axle is offset say 1/4 of an inch and u just align the front the vehicle may pull slightly or should I say push one way or the other.

exactly right. you align the front wheels to match the rear in more simple terms

SaleenGT2001 · May 29, 2008

Dr Jay said:
Hey SaleenGT2001, I gave him the exact numbers you mentioned and this is the printout I got back. Am I ok here? The numbers look a little different than what I expected to get in return.

View attachment 316240

does it pull to the right at all??

the toe doesnt look right. the total toe should be no more than 0.32 you will see some edge wear the way the toe is set up

he is using a Hunter aligner. i'm guessing a DSP600

has your car ever been hit in the LF??

bdcardinal · May 29, 2008

i would pull a little negative camber out of the right side.

i liked to run about 4.5-5 degrees of caster and -.5 camber. i couldve run a lot more, but i drove on the street, and not the track.

SaleenGT2001 · May 29, 2008

the camber is acceptable. the caster should be a little farther forward on the RF but as long as the car does not pull it is not a problem. caster is not a wear angle.

SaleenGT2001 · May 29, 2008

BDCardinal, is it just me or is the range on the toe WAY more than it should be???? i thought total toe was suppose to be 0.32????

the printout is showing a half degree of acceptable ranges

bdcardinal · May 29, 2008

thats way more toe than i remember, damn i havent touched a hunter rack in over a year lol. but ya, i think i ran .14 toe on both sides. i could run the caster equal, cause a lot of roads here are flat.

Dr Jay · May 30, 2008

SaleenGT2001 said:
does it pull to the right at all??

the toe doesnt look right. the total toe should be no more than 0.32 you will see some edge wear the way the toe is set up

he is using a Hunter aligner. i'm guessing a DSP600

has your car ever been hit in the LF??

My car has never been hit and it drives nice, no pull at all. Couldn't be happier with the way it handles, no complaints at all.

Thundermouse · May 31, 2008

That is a lot of toe, but it doesn't surprise me that the tech set it up that way. All three of the 99-04 mustangs that I've had came from the factory with more than 0.25 degrees of toe in on each side. Ford specs are ****ty in regard to the range of toe that they allow (camber too), the maximum Ford toe setting would chew up tires at light speed.

I like to align mine at 0.12 degrees toe in on each side.

SaleenGT2001 · Jun 1, 2008

total toe spec is 0.32

R.J. · Jun 2, 2008

SaleenGT2001: Does a total toe spec of .32, mean that each side should be exactly .16 each?
Thanks

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