Pulley alignment issue

[DanG]

I've been having an issue with a pulley alignment problem, where my belt, albeit extremely tight, walks forward on the tensioner and the water pump pulleys. ( The only pulleys without a lip. )

Thus far, it appears the smog pump pulley is pushed forward about 1/8" further than the crank pulley, and is currently the only issue I can see.
You can see in the photo, that the belt is walking forward on the water pump and the tensioner pulley. To the direct right of the water pump pulley, is the A/C pulley that "appears" to be aligned correctly.

 

[revhead347]

Get a wider tensioner pulley.

Kurt

 

[DanG]

Get a wider tensioner pulley.

Kurt

Do you know a company who makes a wider tensioner pulley? I know ASP makes a stock width.
Only issue is, that I will still have the alignment problem which at this point is tough to determine. I shim one pulley, it changes the alignment of the other...

 

[revhead347]

I just went to the Autoparts store and dug through their pullies till I found one. If I can find the part number I'll post it up, but I won't he home till saturday. It was like $18 and I had to put a little washer behind it to space it out.

Kurt

 

[toyman]

That may be normal. Here's a pic of mine that I took some time ago to highlight the timing pointer.

 

[Canary94GT]

Does it come off or is it just forward a little bit?

 

[DanG]

Does it come off or is it just forward a little bit?

Eventually it ends up coming off. I'm can't determine "where" it comes off, but I'm guessing the water pump, as belt usually ends up stuck and shredded behind the tensioner itself, and sometimes pushed off the back of the water pump.
On a side note, I did notice the tensioner moves a bit back and forth as the motor idles/lopes. It's been such a long while since I've paid attention to these types of things, that I'm not certain if this is normal behavior.

 

[99FiveOh]

Maybe rev the motor up and see what everything is doing? The tensioner shouldn't move forward and backward at all.

 

[Canary94GT]

Dan, I just noticed your belt routing is different than mine, though I'm not sure if you have it that way for a reason (due to mods).

Here is what the stock routing looks like (upper left corner)

94 & 95 Mustang Belt Routing Diagram, Stock, Smog Pump-AC Removed | Mustang Wiring Diagrams

Might be causing it to be able to walk

 

[revhead347]

DanG, that is routed the wrong way. It is suposed to come down from the water pump to the smog pump. My tensioner moves back and forth a lot, even after I put a new tensioner in there. The big cam isn't helping at all. I would try a bigger pulley on the tensioner. Aftermarket underdrive pulleys also give you a water pump pulley with a wider belt surface.

Kurt

 

[toyman]

My tensioner moves a bit at idle and I've never had the belt come off.

 

[VibrantRedGT]

Cheap fix for moving the water pump pulley forward, take the pulley off and add flat washers to the water pump studs then put the water pump pulley back on. Should move the pulley forward a tad. You can double the washers up if not enough but JB Weld them together at least.

Also many mentioned above your belt isn't on correctly. Not sure if this will fix your water pump pulley issue but try the correct way first. The tension is suppose to wobble around a bit, that's normal.

 

[DanG]

I should have mentioned, that the way I have the belt routed, is how the Procharger instructions have me routing it. I could however, try to re-route it how the stock path is recommending just to see what happens.
On a side note, I've noticed yesterday that the following pulleys sit out further than the crank and water pump pulleys:

smog pump
tensioner pulley
alternator

These three pulleys seem to be very close in alignment with each other, and I believe this is due to the smog bracket which is the large bracket which mounts to the head on the passenger side. Looking under the car, there "might" be an impedance between this bracket and the block, meaning the block near the bottom looks like it may be causing an issue with the smog bracket. This I'm not certain of yet, but it would make sense since all three pulleys on this side of the motor are all forward another 1/8" further.

I've also noted that the belt only slides backwards when I begin to get into boost. I'm including two pictures of the belt behavior which shows it sliding backwards, once I get into boost. I believe the belt is "trying" to get in alignment with the crank.

 

[Canary94GT]

have you modified/replaced/removed any of these components before this issue started arising, or has this been happening from the get-go?

 

[DanG]

have you modified/replaced/removed any of these components before this issue started arising, or has this been happening from the get-go?

Everything is the same, except the balancer. I installed a Romac balancer with a spacer, as the balancer did not come with a spacer. When I purchased the balancer from a particular vendor, they sent me the wrong unit, but ( correct balance, but it didn't have the built in spacer ) it seems like it lines up correctly now that the crank shaft spacer is used. Currently, the crank lines up with the water pump pulley which is original.

 

[Canary94GT]

Maybe the boost is causing the smog bracket to bend? O.o

I don't know if thats possible, just an idea

Also can u tell if the crank/water pump pulleys also line up with the idler, power steering, etc pulleys? if so i would say that would completely eliminate one/both of them as the culprit

also, u didnt remove that smog bracket at some point and possibly reinstalled the spacers on it incorrectly?

 

[DanG]

Maybe the boost is causing the smog bracket to bend? O.o

I don't know if thats possible, just an idea

Also can u tell if the crank/water pump pulleys also line up with the idler, power steering, etc pulleys? if so i would say that would completely eliminate one/both of them as the culprit

also, u didnt remove that smog bracket at some point and possibly reinstalled the spacers on it incorrectly?

So, the crank and water pump pulleys align with each other, but not with the smog, tensioner, and alternator. The alternator, smog and tensioner are pretty much in alignment with each other, however. The smog, tensioner, and alternator pulleys are about 1/8" - 1/4" out further than the water pump, and crank.
The smog pump bracket, along with all of the other accessories were all removed, as I just rebuilt the motor a few months ago, and the car has just been running for about 2 1/2 weeks now with this problem.

 

[DanG]

I've spent some more time analyzing this issue, and after taking several pictures which I'm including here as well as measurements, I believe the culprit may lie with the smog pump bracket and it's mating to the block/heads. See below for more details:

1) When measuring the smog pump pulley to the crank pulley, there is almost a 1/4" difference, with the smog pump being more forward. ( picture: smog to crank )
2) When measuring from the smog pump pulley to the tensioner pulley, they are in almost perfect alignment. ( picture: smog to tensioner )
3) When measuring the alternator to tensioner pulleys, there are in alignment. ( picture: alternator to tensioner )
What this shows me, is that all of the accessories and tensioner on the left hand side ( passenger side ) of the car, which reside on the large smog bracket, are in alignment, or near alignment with each other. I used the smog pump pulley to crank pulley as the initial test to show that an alignment problem exists, but not necessarily between the smog, tensioner, and alternator.

Continued on next post..........

 

[DanG]

Pulley photo's pt2

4) When measuring the tensioner to the crank, there is an evident gap, around 1/8, give or take with the tensioner sitting furthest outward. ( picture: tensioner to crank 2 )
5) When measuring the tensioner to the water pump pulley, there also appears to be a misalignment, with the smog sitting further out. ( pictures: tensioner to water pump and tensioner water pump and crank ) You can also see from the tensioner water pump and crank photo, that the water pump and crank are in alignment, or darn near close.
What the above is telling me, is that not only is the smog out of alignment, but so is the tensioner pulley with the water pump and crank shaft. Let's take a look at how the crank measured up with the other pulleys now.

6) When measuring the power steering pulley to the crank, they are in perfect alignment. The power steering is also in alignment with the supercharger and A/C. ( picture: power steering to crank )
To sum up #6, this appears that the crank, water pump, A/C, blower, and power steering are all in alignment. It also shows that the smog pump, tensioner, and alternator are in alignment with each other, but out of alignment with all other accessories.

So to further conclude, there appears to be a small gap between the smog bracket and the block, and also an edge of the block which is pushing against the smog bracket, causing this gap. My assumption is that the mating between the smog pump bracket and the block aren't right, and I may need to grind down on the smog bracket.

Also, as mentioned before, the belt slips to the back of the water pump and tensioner pulleys, as seen in a previous post. This seems to be be caused by the belt wanting to be in alignment with the crank, power steering, and all the accessories on the "right hand side" of the motor.

I appreciate any input.

 

[revhead347]

I'd take it all apart on the alternator side and see what's up. Did you install the engine? On some aftermarket heads one of the bolt holes on the passenger side cylinder heads has to be tapped a little bit to get the bolt to go in all the way.

Kurt