Pulleys & Brackets for Rev Rotation WP?

geostang351 · Jan 6, 2008

Tim65GT said:
This is the best I have, until I get it back in the car and reassemble everything.

Thanks! Totally different then what I thought you were doing.

gregsmy · Jan 10, 2008

Hi everyone,
I was wondering if I could get a little more info on the brackets you used on that setup. I am building a 1936 Ford pickup and am using a 87 Mustang GT 5.0 engine. The original accesory brackets are to wide for the truck so I am needing a different set-up. I am also planning on using the 94-95 timing cover and water pump. Any info on the brackets you used would be a big help. Thanks

Rusty67 · Jan 10, 2008

Tim65GT said:
I ordered the above serp pulley from concept one also a March-1000 pulley set and the March-1465 Alternator bracket from Summit. Hopefully everthing will line up.

Going to paint my engine bay now. Stuff will start going together soon.

gregsmy · Jan 10, 2008

Sorry about that, I guess I didnt read that part that closely. Would somebody have the number for the A/C bracket? I looked on the Vintage Air site and there are about 6 different ones listed and not very good pictures of them. Also has anybody done the set-up with the shorter 94-95 pump?

Tim65GT · Jan 10, 2008

gregsmy
Sorry about that, I guess I didnt read that part that closely. Would somebody have the number for the A/C bracket? I looked on the Vintage Air site and there are about 6 different ones listed and not very good pictures of them. Also has anybody done the set-up with the shorter 94-95 pump?

The Bracket is the one included with the Vintage Air Perfect fit kit for the '65 Mustang. I'll look through my papers to see if I can find a number.

I modified it by cutting off the end of the bracket that has a third hole to fasten to the Waterpump and the extended part that has the hole for the adjuster pulley. I put about 3/16" spacer between the head and the bracket and 3/8" spacers between the WP bolts in order for it to line up with the crank.

If I were to start from nothing, I think I could have fabbed up something with some scrap 1/4" steel.

Here is a pic with the engine in and the belt on:

gregsmy · Jan 10, 2008

If it wouldnt be to much of a bother, can you measure the overall width? From outside edge to outside edge of the alternator and compressor. My problem is that the nose of the truck is very narrow. Thanks

D.Hearne · Jan 10, 2008

gregsmy said:
Hi everyone,
I was wondering if I could get a little more info on the brackets you used on that setup. I am building a 1936 Ford pickup and am using a 87 Mustang GT 5.0 engine. The original accesory brackets are to wide for the truck so I am needing a different set-up. I am also planning on using the 94-95 timing cover and water pump. Any info on the brackets you used would be a big help. Thanks

As you've probably found out, the 87 Stang accessories don't work with a 94-95 Stang waterpump or timing cover. The 94-95 stuff was borrowed from the 88-93 T-Bird/Cougar 5.0's. The timing cover was later used for the 96-2001 Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0's, but with a shorter waterpump and different accessories. You'll need to order aftermarket brackets that are based on any of the above engines.

Tim65GT · Jan 10, 2008

gregsmy
If it wouldnt be to much of a bother, can you measure the overall width? From outside edge to outside edge of the alternator and compressor. My problem is that the nose of the truck is very narrow. Thanks

It's 20" from the outside edge of the alternator to the outside edge of the AC Compressor. It can be rotated so the AC lines are straight up.

gregsmy · Jan 11, 2008

Thanks guys,
I basically have about 23" of width so that set-up would work great. I really would like to use the 94-95 to gain the extra 1 3/4" of space but the cost of those brackets may change my mind. I was thinking of ordering the 87-93 brackets and see if I could shorten the spacers and bolts to move the accesories back to line up with the 94-95 pump. But I am thinking that there may not be enough space behind the alternator and p/s pump for them to go back that extra 1 3/4" and still clear the heads. Any other ideas would be much appreciated.

Tim65GT · Jan 11, 2008

I too was thinking the short water pump setup would be great for clearance from my electric fan, but as it is, the alternator is about as far back as it will go. The dipstick is right behind it.

I originally wanted to mount it low, but it would shroud the timing pointer. Thiis arrangment with the belt routing and the adjuster makes it rather simple.

I'm hoping the radiator & fan will drop in without any issues.

D.Hearne · Jan 11, 2008

gregsmy said:
Thanks guys,
I basically have about 23" of width so that set-up would work great. I really would like to use the 94-95 to gain the extra 1 3/4" of space but the cost of those brackets may change my mind. I was thinking of ordering the 87-93 brackets and see if I could shorten the spacers and bolts to move the accesories back to line up with the 94-95 pump. But I am thinking that there may not be enough space behind the alternator and p/s pump for them to go back that extra 1 3/4" and still clear the heads. Any other ideas would be much appreciated.

You can mount the alternator below the heads. Ford Racing carried a short pump for cars like yours Part number M-8501-E351S. This short pump fits the 70-91 std rotation timing covers. They sold a pulley kit for it too--P/N M-8509Q & M-8509-R The "R" pulleys are 2 groove. The catalog didn't list what alternator brackets to use, I assume it goes with the 289 alternator brackets, which mount the alternator on the lower passenger side. There's another company, who's name escapes me at the moment that made a short pump for the reverse rotation covers used on the Fox Stangs. maybe some one here can give that to you.

gregsmy · Jan 11, 2008

I checked the Ford racing site about the M-8501-E351S short street rod pump and wanted to see if anyone could answer a timing cover question. It says "to be used with M-6059-D351 timing cover which can use either standard rotation pump or M-8501-B50/C50 reverse rotation pump". So then if I look at the M-8501-B50 pump it lists it for "reverse rotation serpentine belt aluminum water pump for 1986-93 5.0L engines". So with that information would the short street rod pump fit and work with my existing 87 Mustang GT timing cover?

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=5532

D.Hearne · Jan 11, 2008

I don't think so, At some point in the mid 80's Ford revised the timing cover and water pump so that the std and reverse pumps use separate timing covers. The port layout for the 87 timing cover (reverse rotation) is a mirror image of the std rotation cover. I have both covers, but can't post pics here to illustrate what I'm talking about. I can get em up on my photobucket page tomorrow. The late 80's std pump looks just like the reverse pump from the outside, but when you compare them on the backside, they're obviously diffferent.

gregsmy · Jan 12, 2008

I would really appreciate the pictures if you can do it. I have been looking at pictures on Rockauto trying to tell the difference. I also found a pump made by a company called Snowwhite that looks like it might work as well.

http://www.snowwhiteltd.com/products.htm

D.Hearne · Jan 12, 2008

Ok, got em on the photobucket site http://s125.www.photobucket.com/albums/p53/baddad457/ the left cover is an 87-up reverse rotation cover(E7TE-6059-BA) used on the 87-93 Stangs, 87-up Lincoln Mark VII 5.0, & the E & F series trucks and vans with the reverse rotation pumps. This cover has no provision for a fuel pump.The right cover is a 69-up std rotation cover(C9OE-6059-A). Note the coolant ports are reversed but the outer bolt pattern for the waterpump is the same. The M-6059-D351 cover has the same port layout as the C9OE cover. Some of the early(79-to about 85) reverse rotation pumps fit these covers, the later pumps match the later style cover's ports.

gregsmy · Jan 14, 2008

Thanks for all the help and pictures. I spent a couple hours measuring and moving things around and decided that I can probably make it squeze by with the std 87 water pump and serp. All the changes and expense to gain 1.5" just doesnt seem to be worth it. I can use the aftermarket alternator, power steering brackets and the vintage air compressor bracket to make a set-up that is narrow enough to fit inside the hood sides. I was really hoping to get a wp mounted fan on the engine but there just isnt enough room so I will have to settle for a electric pusher fan mounted to the front of the radiator. Thanks again for the help

nolesfan86 · Jan 27, 2008

This thread has been extremely helpful as I am also installing the same Ford crate engine into a '66 coupe with A/C and no power steering. I've decided to keep the serp belt set-up based on the information from Tim65GT and others.

Tim65GT: I have a few follow-up questions if you don't mind. 1) What radiator and electric fan set-up are you using? 2) What did you use to plug the old rear-sump dipstick hole in the block. Local auto parts store struggled to find a plug. 3) what electric fuel pump are you using? 4) Are you going with different value covers to support a PCV system?

Thanks again for the information you have posted.

D.Hearne · Jan 27, 2008

I plugged the dipstick hole on my 331 with a snug fitting bolt coated with RTV sealer. The electric pump feeding it's three carbs is a Mr.Gasket 30 gal/hr bought locally from Advance Auto parts.

Tim65GT · Jan 27, 2008

nolesfan86
This thread has been extremely helpful as I am also installing the same Ford crate engine into a '66 coupe with A/C and no power steering. I've decided to keep the serp belt set-up based on the information from Tim65GT and others.

Tim65GT: I have a few follow-up questions if you don't mind. 1) What radiator and electric fan set-up are you using? 2) What did you use to plug the old rear-sump dipstick hole in the block. Local auto parts store struggled to find a plug. 3) what electric fuel pump are you using? 4) Are you going with different value covers to support a PCV system?

Thanks again for the information you have posted.

1) I am using a Northern aluminum radiator and an electric fan from a Ford Taurus.

The install is in this thread:

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=698848

And some follow up on the electrics:

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=710766

2) I used the plug that was in the timing cover. I knocked it out with a punch, put some sealer on it and tapped it into the hole with a 1/4 in punch.

3) I used my old mech fuel pump. The instructions state the engine comes with a fuel pump eccentric, but it didn't. I had to remove the WP and timing cover, test fit my old eccentric (of course it didn't fit) modify it for clearance by removing .100" from it, cleaning up all surfaces and resealed the timing cover and oil pan. Whew.

4) I had some decent Edelbrock chrome valve covers, but really liked the polished aluminum ones that came with the engine, so I modified the Driver side cover to accept the standard PCV grommet. I used a 1/4 hole saw and cut through the existing boss from the inside. I cleaned up the ridges on the outer area with a dremel so the grommet would sit flush. I also made a baffle out of 20 gauge steel plate. The slots are much wider on the other side to allow air flow. (see pics) There was already 3 bosses on the inside of the cover that just needed to be tapped out. I secured the baffle with 3 10-32x1/2" stainless steel screws and locktite. The Fitting on the side of the oil fill tube on the Pass side valve cover goes to the air cleaner via 3/8" hose and a a brass fitting.

Pics:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f315/Tim65GT/Misc/DSC08321.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f315/Tim65GT/Misc/DSC08322.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f315/Tim65GT/Misc/DSC08323.jpg

nolesfan86 · Jan 27, 2008

Thanks again for all the help.

I pretty much destroyed the plug in the front cover getting it out so I'll probably go with D. Hearne's suggestion with the bolt and sealer.

I also read that the fuel pump eccentric was include, but no. I don't have the heart right now to tear off the front of the engine so I'm going to go with an eletric pump down by the tank. I'm only running a Holley 670 on a Performer RPM intake so I shouldn't need much pump volume.

Great tips on the value covers. I was hoping I could use them, they look great!

Jeff

Pulleys & Brackets for Rev Rotation WP?

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