Push Rod Questions...??????

Adam95GT · Apr 2, 2009

Checked the length on my engine the right way finally... i have 2 sets of pushrods sitting at the house... the ones i put on the engine are showed first... I set the checker to the length of a trickflow 6.7 set i have... The the last was full down which seamed to fit perfectly on the center of the valve... but the size compared to the ones i had on there are so close.... should i find 6.125's or use the curent set up.... anyone know where to find them???

Here is the Pics...

Length pushrods on the engine now....

Trick FLow 6.7's i had... Length checker set to match...
WAY too long IMO

Length checker set full down at 6.125''

Difference between full down and pushrod from first set of pictures...

S351Saleen77 · Apr 3, 2009

When you checked the length what did you use for a lifter? Did you use a stock Hyd roller lifter or? I'm asking because the stock Hyd lifter will collapse and not give you a good reading.

The last one looks the best...Summit has all the different lengths of Trick Flow pushrods.....are you saying that Trick Flow does not make this length since you ask where to find them?

Adam95GT · Apr 3, 2009

S351Saleen77 said:
When you checked the length what did you use for a lifter? Did you use a stock Hyd roller lifter or? I'm asking because the stock Hyd lifter will collapse and not give you a good reading.

The last one looks the best...Summit has all the different lengths of Trick Flow pushrods.....are you saying that Trick Flow does not make this length since you ask where to find them?

Flipped a plunger around in a lifter to make a "solid one" that doesent compress....

I cant find that length for some reason any help would be great....

Do you think the 6.125 is the right size???

The first set is stock length.... 6.247 or 6.25 someting like that.... as you can see in the pictures of them side by side the adjustable at full down is really close in length to the ones i used on the engine "stock Length"

Adam95GT · Apr 3, 2009

All i can find is:
Stock length... Which i already have...
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-21406250 - Trick Flow® Chromemoly Pushrods
A little smaller but not the size i need: (is this my best bet, worth spending money on these or do the stock length look ok?)
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-21406150 - Trick Flow® Chromemoly Pushrods

S351Saleen77 · Apr 3, 2009

Adam95GT said:
Flipped a plunger around in a lifter to make a "solid one" that doesent compress....

I cant find that length for some reason any help would be great....

Do you think the 6.125 is the right size???

The first set is stock length.... 6.247 or 6.25 someting like that.... as you can see in the pictures of them side by side the adjustable at full down is really close in length to the ones i used on the engine "stock Length"

I can't remember off the top of my head how much a lifter collapse's with say 1/2 turn preload....but lets just say for this example it's .030". So I measured the height of the plunger in the lifter and then subtract the .030". Then I took the guts out of one and put washers in to get it the plunger at the correct preload height, then did the push rod length check.

I'm not sure if by flipping the plunger over you are still getting the correct height?

Once you are sure of your length I would get the EXACT length you need or VERY close. I bet you can find some in your lenth. I'm running Trick Flow push rods and I remember calling Summit and they had it. I don't remember seeing it in their catalog at the time.

Adam95GT · Apr 3, 2009

The flip made it dead even with the others when they were also out with no pressure. SO you think i should add +.030 to the pushrod length/??
that would put me at that set of trick flows that are 6.200 in length... I know the stock length was almost dead on b4 the soild lifter test... so this would lead me to believe that the perfect size would be between 6.125 and 6.250 the 6.150 or the 6.20's they have would be almost right there...

Adam95GT · Apr 3, 2009

"To take lifter preload into account, you can add about .030" to your measured pushrod length assuming that the modified hyro lifter is locked at the top of the piston's travel(up against the clip). That extra .030" will equal about half of a turn on the rocker nut. Also make sure that you are checking the length either with a headgasket installed(a used gasket is fine) and the head torqued down or there again, add the gasket's compressed thickness to the measured pushrod length. For example, you would have .030" for the preload and probably around .040" for the average gasket for a total of .070" added to the pushrod measurement."

Found that so if i use a "solid" modded lifter.... I need to add +.030 to +.060 sooooo i should be 6.155-6.185 so i think i should be good with that 6.150 or 6.20 length... what do you guys think....

S351Saleen77 · Apr 3, 2009

That's what I kinda thought it was .030", I also use an old head gasket so it's already crushed.

So If you did run a head gasket add the .030" to your 6.125" and you get 6.155" so I would get the 6.150" ones.

You can normally look up the gasket brand online and find the crushed thickness
If you didn't have a head gasket on, then add another say .040" then you would be at 6.195" then I would get the 6.2" ones.

I would get the ones that are right....remember close only count's in Horseshoes & Handgrenades!

revhead347 · Apr 3, 2009

First picture looks about dead on. Use those pushrods.

Kurt

Adam95GT · Apr 3, 2009

Wait... you think the first one looks good i thought i t was supposed to be dead center on the valve...

i have to add .03 to my value for preload... im unsure if i need shims.... its hard to fine info on rail type rockers... if i need shims will i have to redo my pushrod length or will the shims not effect it...

Also does it look like the arm on the shorter pushrods are resting on the valve spring...

S351Saleen77 · Apr 3, 2009

So you have rail rockers with no guide plates and they are adjustable...not the bolt down kind like stock correct? If so then everything we have said is true.....I didn't think about the rocker hitting the retainer...I assumed you would have noticed if it did since you were there......so is it hitting?? If so then that will not work.
Bolt down stock type you would add shims, rail adjustable you don't use shims, they are the same as having ones with guide plates instead of rails.

I'm assuming you are turning the motor over a complete revolution to check the pattern on the valve, correct?

If you want, PM me your phone # and I can give you a call. This has to be done right.

revhead347 · Apr 3, 2009

Yeah, the first picture is more in the center than the second picture. This isn't an exact science. Almost all the aftermarket heads work perfect with stock pushrods. The only ones that seem to have trouble are the twisted wedges. If the heads and block aren't milled, you're pretty safe with stock length pushrods.

Kurt

Adam95GT · Apr 3, 2009

S351Saleen77 said:
So you have rail rockers with no guide plates and they are adjustable...not the bolt down kind like stock correct? If so then everything we have said is true.....I didn't think about the rocker hitting the retainer...I assumed you would have noticed if it did since you were there......so is it hitting?? If so then that will not work.
Bolt down stock type you would add shims, rail adjustable you don't use shims, they are the same as having ones with guide plates instead of rails.

I'm assuming you are turning the motor over a complete revolution to check the pattern on the valve, correct?

If you want, PM me your phone # and I can give you a call. This has to be done right.

Yes it didnt look or sound like it was hitting but in the pics it looks close.... im turning over the engine 2+ times to check... Im not sure if they are adjustable no guide plates just a lock nut... i wont be at the garage till thursday but if you would call that would be awesome definatly easer to explain this to me...

S351Saleen77 · Apr 3, 2009

Adam, I just got your # and I will call you.

You need .040"-.050" between the rocker and arm.

Heres a link to comp cams...looks like maybe you have too short of valves for the rockers...If you had guide plates and non ralil rockers you would have more clearance.

See what it says under the rail rockers and the valve tips...

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Instructions/Files/250.pdf

Adam95GT · Apr 3, 2009

Heads:

Cam:

Bottom:

Info on my problem from long ago....
http://forums.stangnet.com/736129-pushrod-problems-3.html

I just realized i didnt put my cam on base circle when tightning to zero lash... i guess the intake has to come back off so i can do it again.... 3rd time its been rtv'd back down...

After talking with you on the phone (thanks by the way)

im considering (TFS stage 2 cam)
Originally Posted by Trickflow
Product Line: Trick Flow® Track Max® Hydraulic Roller Camshafts for Ford 5.0L
Part Type: Camshafts
Cam Style: Hydraulic roller tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,500-6,000
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 232
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./232 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 286
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 294
Advertised Duration: 286 int./294 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.542 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.563 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.542 int./0.563 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Computer-Controlled Compatible: No
Grind Number: HR-236/359-2S1-10

INFO i need to find... can i use a "modern" style rocker set up on these longer tip valves...

Adam95GT · Apr 3, 2009

Rail or Non-Rail type rockers - FordMuscle.com Forums

the tips on my valves dont look that big

Adam95GT · Apr 3, 2009

more info
Ford Engine Technical Specs & Information

Adam95GT · Apr 3, 2009

"If you go with roller tip rockers you can get the rail type rockers. You can not use guide plates with rail type rockers. You must change the springs and shorten the valve stems to run regular rockers. At least thats what I understand. You can get a pretty nice cam useing rail rockers."
From:
Roller rocker arms - Ford Mustang Forums

I wish i could get strait info!

S351Saleen77 · Apr 4, 2009

Adam95GT said:
Rail or Non-Rail type rockers - FordMuscle.com Forums

the tips on my valves dont look that big

Adam,

I just got in and don't have time to look through everything you posted...but.. yes your tips don't look like they are long enough for rail rockers.....but your machine shop said they were...??? Rail tips are much longer. From the pic's yours look like regular length valves which would take a non rail rocker. You can measure your tip length and find out if they are longer or not.

In the one link where you show your arms on the engine from the top view they don't look straight...they look like they are at an angle from the push rod to the valve....is this right or is it the pic? They should be straight. If they are not did they say anything about this when you talked to them?

The TF cam looks nice!! It would work good with the gears you are going to run!

I see yours is 107deg intake 117 ex. When we talked you said 107 so I thought it was on both. This will mellow out the idle a lot over having 107 on both in and ex. What brand is it again?

From the pic's your valves look like 2.02", I would check on the KB pistons and see if they are cut for 2.02's.

Here is the only shot I have on the computer of my 408 before I put it in.

Tom

Adam95GT · Apr 4, 2009

S351Saleen77 said:
Adam,

I just got in and don't have time to look through everything you posted...but.. yes your tips don't look like they are long enough for rail rockers.....but your machine shop said they were...??? Rail tips are much longer. From the pic's yours look like regular length valves which would take a non rail rocker. You can measure your tip length and find out if they are longer or not.

In the one link where you show your arms on the engine from the top view they don't look straight...they look like they are at an angle from the push rod to the valve....is this right or is it the pic? They should be straight. If they are not did they say anything about this when you talked to them?

The TF cam looks nice!! It would work good with the gears you are going to run!

I see yours is 107deg intake 117 ex. When we talked you said 107 so I thought it was on both. This will mellow out the idle a lot over having 107 on both in and ex. What brand is it again?

From the pic's your valves look like 2.02", I would check on the KB pistons and see if they are cut for 2.02's.

Here is the only shot I have on the computer of my 408 before I put it in.

Tom

NICE engine man... I think it might have something to do with the size of the holes in the heads for the pushrods... along with the longer valve tips as well as there being no guide plates....

I also found info that you cannot use guide plates with a rail type set up... no info on poly locks yet i really wish i could find answers to these questions.

Push Rod Questions...??????

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